Psychotic P***y Podcast
Just two sisters discussing women’s mental and physical health. It's not only our hobby, but our careers. We want to shed light on important topics & teach people new things every episode.
Psychotic P***y Podcast
The Gender Health Gap
Have you ever wondered why we're still using euphemisms for female body parts in 2024? Or why your doctor dismissed pain that kept you bedridden for days? The shocking truth is that women's health remains shrouded in medical mystery —not because we lack the capability to understand it, but because we've systematically failed to prioritize it.
In this eye-opening conversation with Saskia and Lucy, founders of "What Nobody Told Us," we dive deep into the alarming gender health gap and its real-world consequences. When a December 2023 report revealed the dismal state of reproductive healthcare, these two friends decided enough was enough. They're now building a platform to provide the education many of us never received, challenging the status quo that has normalized women's pain and dismissed their concerns for generations.
The statistics are staggering: less than 2.5% of public funding goes toward reproductive health research, and females represent only 37% of clinical trial participants. This research gap means treatments developed for men are simply applied to women without proper testing. Meanwhile, women with conditions like endometriosis wait an average of eight years for diagnosis while being labeled "difficult" when they advocate for themselves.
Perhaps most troubling is how this medical gaslighting begins early. From hiding tampons up our sleeves as teenagers to being told severe menstrual pain is just something to endure, we internalize shame about normal bodily functions. Lucy, a doctor herself, describes the heartbreaking experience of watching patients light up when they finally feel heard—often for the first time in their healthcare journey.
Whether you're looking to understand your own body better or want to join the fight for healthcare equality, this conversation offers both validation and hope. The gender health gap wasn't created overnight, and closing it will take all of us speaking up, sharing stories, and refusing to accept pain and dismissal as inevitable parts of having a female reproductive system.
Follow @whatnobodytoldus on Instagram to join their growing movement and access the reproductive health information nobody told you —but everyone deserves to know.
Disclaimer: This podcast represents the opinions of Dr. Bridget Melton, MD and licensed therapist Marissa Volinsky, MS, LPC, NCC. The contents of our podcast and website should not be taken as medical advice. The contents of our podcast and website are for general informational purposes only, and are not intended to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition or disease or substitute for medical advice. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before starting or discontinuing treatment.
If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis, please reach out immediately to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255 or text HOME to the Crisis Text Line at 741741. These services are free and confidential.
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Welcome back to Psychotic PY Podcast. This is episode nine. I cannot believe we've gotten here this far. We have two special guests this week with us, saskia and Lucy. They have a platform called what Nobody Told Us, so we're really excited to have them join us this week.
Speaker 2:Hi, hey, thanks. We'll have you guys introduce yourselves as people and professionals, but they're both moms and ladies who have a lot to teach people, so take it away.
Speaker 3:Hello, thank you so much for having us. I am Saskia, I am a human being and a woman and a mother, um, and trying to spin all the plates that we all do, uh and yeah, run recently set up what nobody told us, together with lucy um, with like I don't know a mishmash of backgrounds, but recently, like, I've spent a lot of time working in health care and health technology, like trying to bring new innovations in across kind of women's health and other spaces. So I have kind of lived and breathed this, both personally and professionally, I would say, and Lucy and I are great old friends Hi.
Speaker 4:I'm Lucy. I'm a doctor, I am a mum and step-mum of three girls, um, and one what potentially a girl, don't know yet on the way. Uh started off in a different specialty but now working in general practice, so I've always been really interested in women's health and Saskia and I, as I said, we've been friends for years and we've always had this like underlying thing where we've wanted to work together and do something together because this has been such a passion for us and it was just finding our niche and how, how we could put that, um, let's say, passion anger. There's a lot of anger.
Speaker 4:I think yeah, I understand that and I think becoming a doctor later has definitely given me a confidence of sort of going no, no, it shouldn't, no, it doesn't have to be like this. And yeah, without going into too much of sort of more of what we've been doing, I think it's just us coming together to be like how can we make it better for other people? Awesome.
Speaker 2:So how did the idea come to you guys? Is it because you've been friends for so long? So how did the idea come to?
Speaker 3:you guys. Is it because you've been friends for so long? This is something you guys always just went back and forth with, just talking about casually, or was there one triggering event that made you be like that's it, we need to help people? Was one trigger? But I mean, ever since Lucy and I became friends, uh, myself and all of our other mates will turn to Lucy incessantly for any kind of doctor advice. Even before she had trained, had her medical training, she was our font of knowledge and, um, we've kind of laughed about that on and off, that Lucy's kind of our go-to, often before our GPs, just for that initial sounding board. So that was happening.
Speaker 3:I was working, uh, in like an area of women's health that was focused on, uh, women's health hubs, which is this really brilliant initiative, all about delivering kind of care to women, like in specialist centers all around the country, so you would be able to go and you could go and see a specialist about your coil or about fertility or about kind of.
Speaker 3:There were various different things they were going to focus on and it just sounded incredible. And then, when you kind of dug a bit deeper, actually lots of the funding hadn't been ring fenced and like swallowed up in other things. And all of the hubs not a sweeping statement, but the majority of the hubs that had actually been set up were set up by people like trailblazing women who were going to go above and beyond, and I was just kind of there was that frustration brewing. Who were going to go above and beyond and I was just kind of there was that frustration brewing. I was looking at my now nine-year-old daughter and thinking like how are you going to navigate all of this and how am I going to help you when I struggle to navigate it?
Speaker 3:and I don't know like really basic answers. So we were talking about that and then in December, december of last year's December 2024, this report landed called the women's uh health, reproductive conditions report, I think, and it was looking into kind of any progress that had been made in the current landscape for anything to do with reproductive health and like long and short of it is.
Speaker 3:It's just shit like it's shit it was shit before and it isn't getting any better, and it was just such a harrowing read and I turned to Lucy and I was like what is going on with this?
Speaker 3:This is so bad and it's like at every level, from kind of at the education system how we teach children, even up to kind of healthcare professionals not having the depth of knowledge in areas that they need to so that kind of started us talking um about like what could be done to try and really, like you know, actually make some change and do something positive.
Speaker 3:Um, and so we turned to our community around us and we asked them lots and lots of questions and it turned out that really like, apart from the doctors that we spoke to really knew anything Like our basic knowledge about kind of these reproductive health conditions that are really common, like fibroids, like endometriosis, like you know the list of them, even to like naming our own anatomy, like it was just these incredibly smart women who were like don't know, and dimitrios is something that lena dunham has, like that was the kind of of the answers. It was like, oh my gosh, you know, this is something. Yeah, we need to kind of discuss it at this level. So I think, yeah, lots of like under currents of fury over the years, and then this, like the report landed and the stats which were all like swept across the media, these like horrible you know waiting list times and eight years for donate like that I think was the was the thing that made us go right. This enough, yeah, let's try and do something about it oh good, that's a really good answer.
Speaker 2:So it was.
Speaker 4:It was like building for a while which is fueling the fire yeah, absolutely, and I think, um, we just we knew we wanted to do something together that would that would sort of try and tackle this. But I think doing the survey really gave us the focus, because it was just this echo over and over again from women of why, why don't we know the answers to these questions? And, yeah, why? Or, or people with you know reproductive health issues. Why is it a mystery until it happens to me, so until I go through some trauma, or until I have a child and have to explain it to them? Why is there this almost like 15th century witchcraft mysticism about I'm literally having at the moment trying to apply for mat leave and it's like the full moon before you're like, oh my god oh, my god the wording on the mat leave form.
Speaker 2:They make you do some crazy math.
Speaker 4:You're like I don't know why is it so still shrouded in? Yeah, like literally the word confinement, like it's still used, and there's so much, so many things like that. Keep going on. Um, that, just yeah, wind us up no end. And, and, yeah, that's where the name came from. What nobody told us was was why. Why are we just clueless for so long until it happens? Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:Um, what are some of the scariest knowledge gaps that you've seen? Like, what are some things people ask you and you're like, oh my gosh, we don't even know that?
Speaker 4:um, so I think I think what's what's scary is how common some of the things are, are like it's, it's always quite bitless, sounds, all the same, basic, but, um, it's the frequency of the same things coming up and you just think, how has this not come up sooner for you? Um, that genuinely worries me. Also, not to sort of toot my own horn, but something that really worries me is how often I get, oh, I feel really listened to. Thank you, I've never felt listened to like this and you're like, okay, why? And I now I have it. I literally had it today and I have it most, maybe most weeks I will see a girl age like 8 to 12 and if it's anything where I can get it in, I will be like okay.
Speaker 4:So let's practice talking to doctors and it's practice being open with each other, because it's really important. You're going to speak to some doctors. You maybe don't want to talk about these things, and that's okay. You go to another doctor straight after getting that in, because I think it starts really young and I think that's the fear, the scary thing, I get when I'm talking to women. You know our age, or older, or young, whatever where I think, okay, this is happening for you the first time you're you're 40 like that really, that, really yeah but I think we would.
Speaker 3:We were discussing how, like and I don't know if it's the same in the US, I don't know how like the education, how it's tackled for children, but when we were at school, you were basically just taught that the girls, you're gonna start your period, you're gonna bleed every month and this is. You know, this is how long a cycle is like. Obviously, nobody's cycle is like that, but that's a side point. Um, it's gonna be really painful and like don't get pregnant. Like that was almost nothing else beyond that. There was no, no talk about kind of literally anything beyond starting a period.
Speaker 3:Um, and I've been kind of I've talked a bit on our platform and like very openly with my friends about how I was using the wrong name, the wrong words, for my own anatomy until I was like 31 and I went to this incredible eve appeal event which was all about like how important it was to name a girl's and like a name female anatomy from like, like for your, from your baby's age. So you start kind of rather than using like no, no and all these terrible words. Sorry, I know that some people I'm looking at studs, I'd love that one, but I don't and I literally there vulva and vagina, and then obviously, no fandangos allowed here.
Speaker 3:It's vulva and but I was like oh my god, it's a vulva. I've been calling it a vagina for all these years and.
Speaker 3:I had to go to my three-year-old and be like, hey, you know, we're being like really like clever, and we said it was a vagina. It's actually not, it's a vulva. And she was like what, what are you talking about? Um, but I and I've kind of talked about that and how like, oh, my god, it's so like embarrassing. I've got so much shame. And then I've been thinking about it recently and I'm like god, we, I mean as women, we carry shame about so many things, but like we were not taught this stuff, we weren't taught it, we, there was just so many gaps of knowledge, and I think that that I'm obviously coming at this not from a medical, clinical background and the thing, the thing that has amazed me is just like at every single stage, women are being let down, and it's not like there isn't a particular area where it's like, um, yeah, where we're getting loads of questions, it's like the whole, the whole breadth, um, and sometimes it is as simple as like what is the name for this thing?
Speaker 2:It's like yeah yeah, yeah, I would say it's the same in the States education wise, it's really just like this is what a period is, and they separate boys and girls. And then it wasn't until med school where they were like, you know, la, you know, and you're like, oh what, there's like so many different parts to the cycle, like I was like, how do I not know this?
Speaker 1:I have this. I think the only difference is fandango for us is where we buy movie tickets, but that's the only difference.
Speaker 4:It's like whole fanny bum situation all over again yes, yeah yeah, um, yeah, I think I think also the shame that comes with it all, like I want. Something I really hate is so you're grown up. You grow up and you're told like, don't get pregnant, don't get pregnant. And then you try and get pregnant and it's quite hard sometimes and for a lot of people, and therefore you think you're doing something wrong. And it's only when you maybe speak to other women going through the same thing or certainly things like miscarriage and you know, infertility, secondary whatever it is.
Speaker 4:I think the fact that because it's so, it's made to feel so normal that you don't look at a boy. You'll get pregnant. When you're at school you think, well, I'm clearly doing something or my body is doing something seriously wrong. And I think that is where there's that intersection of like shame and lack of education and it's really really life changing and upsetting for a lot of people that they don't have the background knowledge of there's a time of the month where it's more likely to happen. Something as simple as that isn't out there until you're in your doctor's office six months after trying to be like it's more likely to happen. Just something as simple as that isn't out there until you're at your in your doctor's office six months after trying being like it's not happening. Um, it shouldn't be constant revelations yeah, that is the big one.
Speaker 2:Um, I would say people always are like wait, what?
Speaker 4:like I have to do this when I'm ovulating and you're like, yeah, otherwise it doesn't really work which is now this obsession with ovulation and spending loads of money on ovulation sticks, and I'm like, well, if you peed on something and it's go time, it may not be go time.
Speaker 4:You may now be too late because those little guys need to be sitting there waiting and the pressure that then couples are putting on themselves. And so you see that, and you see couples, you know, arguing and you're like, oh, no, like, because there's then the sort of marketing angle of oh, it's just, yeah, it's really dark, and it's like if you just understood your cycle when you were 13 right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And also like if you understood that you have a cycle, that is your cycle that is not like anybody else's cycle, and that's something that I've like found insane recently when you kind of read up about like what, what is normal?
Speaker 3:Because that's a big thing that's coming up right now around like what is normal. It's like, actually, when it comes to like women's health stuff, there is not really a normal because our bodies are incredible and they all do very different things, but also because there's never been enough research so we don't actually know what your body's doing, and that's a whole other thing. But particularly when it comes to periods, like everyone's cycle is basically different, like it's it's unique, and I'm saying that maybe stud is like shut up, saskia, that's not actually true. But but like the recent, there's a study that I've you guys might have seen in in the New Yorker that was looking at like a group of women and they track their menstrual cycles and like nobody in that group of 300, 400 women had anything that resembled the. The way that we kind of track this is and how many days, and this and this and this and this, like nobody had that 28 day cycle I think it's very much like um bridget I think you mentioned.
Speaker 4:Is it um criado pres christina? Criado pres book in one of your podcasts?
Speaker 2:yes, oh love yeah, but how?
Speaker 4:there is no average. So if you measured like average person and you took the average height and weight and waist circumference and neck circumference, everything and made the average thing, no actual person would fit in that thing and I'm sure it's from that book and it's a bit like that. And it's like when you sit there and you go well, the normal cycle is 21 to 35 days and as the words come out your mouth you're like well, that's, that's huge yeah the same for so much of it and yet with we women take away 28 days, and if I'm different, I'm weird.
Speaker 4:I've just listed so many things. But even like, later at like has been having been a doctor for a while and I'm sure, bridget, obviously you're literally specializing in this, so you must then have the whole thing of like, oh god, what I learned was wrong. Yeah, always, I don't know. Is it like that for neurology or, like I don't know, orthopedics? I feel like there's this added layer of mysticism because it's about early bits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and for so long I mean still now. I don't know why I'm saying for so long like this is how it still works. We ask you like do you know anything about your mother's cycle or your sister's? Because that's the only knowledge. We have no research, so we just go. When did your mom go through menopause? Because we assume maybe you'll be similar. How is that any like?
Speaker 4:is it that loose?
Speaker 3:Is it? Is that the loose connection, then, that we kind of think that you're you, that we think you're going to follow your kind of your mother's?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah. So average average age of menopause is 51, but you know, if your mother went through it at 40, we say, hey, have you thought about having a family? Because your mom went through menopause early. So you might.
Speaker 4:We don't know if you will yeah, I mean you've got a whole other set of genetics involved, but we always go when did your mom like? That means Anything that may not be 50% of your yeah, like not that I understand genetics, don't get me started. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We even say, like you know, do you know anything about your mom's pregnancy history? If you're trying, we as if there's some sort of loose connection.
Speaker 4:If there is, it's very thin my mother and I couldn't have four different pregnancies if we tried. It was so easy. If I hadn't had a bump, I wouldn't have known I was pregnant but everything we learn is like from your mom.
Speaker 2:Basically, because you don't get the knowledge in school, people are very afraid to talk about it. You know in public. So growing up you're just like I don't know what's happening, and your mom goes well, this you know, this is what I did and you go. Okay, that's kind of it.
Speaker 4:And then I think what's really worrying speaking about, like you know, different generations and stuff and it's not just, you know, talking about older people, because some of the stuff we're really trying to do is aimed at older women, but the resistance that we get in our DMs is probably from a cohort that struggled arguably more and was told to get on with it and was told that that was normal and you could have had an easier time.
Speaker 4:to see people trying to make change is really jarring because you have to accept inside consciously that that actually my life was difficult and it didn't need to be. That's a really difficult thing to when we see it like Saskia's always like Lucy, stop feeding the trolls.
Speaker 2:So give us a sample. What are the, what are the resistance? What are they saying?
Speaker 4:um, so sass, do you want to say what you did with your coil, what you did?
Speaker 3:oh yeah, so I was talking about getting my coil taken out, like I was off to get my coil taken out because I just really didn't like it. I didn't have a good time with the marina coil. I was on my way to have it out and it was very painful to have it in and I feel, and for various reasons you know, as lots of us have had, like I don't like going in and having the speculum and like all of that stuff, like it just makes me go like it makes me kind of anyway.
Speaker 3:So I was talking about that and for some people it's not easy, right, getting the coil out it's not easy, and I was nervous and I kind of mentioned that I was talking about that and for some people it's not easy, right, getting the coil out is not easy, and I was nervous. And I kind of mentioned that I was going to do it anyway. Then I mean, there was just I think it was only one person but this message like you're a bunch of wusses, I can't believe, like just really made into it.
Speaker 3:How on earth, how on earth did your parents cope? Like, oh my God, um, just really, yeah, uh, yeah, shaming, calling out like a fear, like acknowledging pain or a nervousness around pain or like actual pain. And I think, yeah, I mean, I think there is this whole normalization of pain in, uh, in our generation, but also in the generation above us and hopefully now, like there's more, there's definitely a movement right now to be like no pain, like experiencing pain is not normal, like that is not like if you are in crippling pain every month, or even not crippling, even, just like pain. That doesn't have to be like that.
Speaker 3:You don't have to just be like, oh well, it's that time and I'm not gonna be able to get out of bed for three days exactly heavy painkillers, like that is not how it has to be and um, yeah, and I feel like that voice was really just the voice of probably like Lucy's saying, with being like compassionate rather than it just actually being like some bot writing to us no, no she wasn't a bot. Um yeah, I think kind of the compassionate side is like right, yeah, you've had to put up with so much shit and you had to just get on with that pain and keep going and not talk about it so it's hard to then hear people talking about it.
Speaker 4:You have two options at that point. You can either be like, oh god, I could have had it easier, or or be like, no, you're weak actually for wanting it differently. You're weak and wanting things to be easier and I coped, so you should have. And I just think that's. There have been a few messages in that vein, or where people where we've said something um, I think we did, we did pelvic examinations, and that was another one where people were like, just get on with it and you're like, yeah, you can do that.
Speaker 4:It's awful, like it's miserable and and I think it's really interesting because I've had so I've had two coils and I've had two coil removals and I've had one. Both of them I've had done differently, so I've had one anesthetized insertion. I actually found a cervical block very painful.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:After that was fine, and then I had like a removal just in there, like sexual health, but then having to have it removed when the threads were lost. Then you're talking about another cervical block, dilatation, cramps, feeling woozy, and I just think it's not necessarily saying you're going to feel pain and that shouldn't, that's not normal, so you need to go and see a specialist and have a block. It's about saying, okay, so you might be fine, you might not be. Either of those things is okay, because I think the danger is we're now going to start scaring everybody because, like okay, that this thing is agonizing. Yes, it is agonizing for some people.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you have to find the, the middle ground of being like your experience is valid and if your experience is not going well, you have a right to speak up and change that experience in your legs in stirrups, like it doesn't have to be dictated that you know you're in the room, so therefore it's over, and I think we have. We need options as women and as people who have these procedures, not be told okay, because I think there's the dangers that you end up being a different one size fits all. Um, and we need everyone needs what it's a bit like birth choices. You need options. You need discussion about what could happen for every single eventuality, not just well, it's medicalized, that's bad which is happening.
Speaker 4:Obviously, bridget, you must see this so much um or it's uh. You know you must have a home birth, which could end up being dangerous. And if, what? If you don't want a home birth, what you feel like you're a terrible mother or you want to leave out your baby, and everything's beautiful and wonderful. But maybe you didn't get that opportunity because someone pushed you. I just think there's just too many, oh, there's so many. Everyone's been pushed and told what's right and wrong, rather than just like who's your smorgasbord of options, pick what works.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's it, isn't it. It's like advocacy, right, like you're trying. I think we often feel like we don't have a voice within those situations, or many, many people feel like they don't have a voice within this situation, so ever become everything becomes very binary. It's like you're saying it's kind of this way or that way. Yeah, um, and what's actually been really enlightening for me and learning from lucy in some of these videos is just like the power that you could, like you know that you can, of course, I mean now I say it out loud, it's obvious, but I just think there's something about clinical settings that makes people feel like that you kind of can lose your voice, and there's lots yeah, yeah, well, yeah, so what help do the rest of us have? Um, so I think that, yeah, if we can do anything, and it's helping people find their voice to like advocate for themselves and for their needs, and yeah, and that feels really important so if you, I mean, I mean I completely agree.
Speaker 2:but you get these women sometimes who come in specifically for me, like if they're pregnant, and they come in with their little binder and they're like this is what I want, and then they're called difficult, like the second they leave the room. Every doctor's like my God, she's so difficult, it's not going to go to plan. It's like, yes, obviously it's not going to go to plan. Like no one who writes a birth plan is going to get exactly that. Like you would be like reading a crystal ball, yeah, but why is it that she's difficult? Because she read up on her shit and she knows what she wants and she made a decision yeah, and it's navigating, that it's going amazing.
Speaker 4:Why do you want those things? What's your priority? What is your absolute worst case scenario? If you thought about that, would you like to avoid that like open dialogue with that person who's having that baby or babies, rather than saying, oh she, she's got a shopping list and therefore she's a bad person. You know, it's, it's not you people write people off and that's the thing it's like. We get no options. We're told to you know, just get on with everything. So the moment someone dares to say, well, actually I'd quite like some music on if that's what you're like, well, you're just too demanding, aren't you love that? It's just.
Speaker 4:I'll go back to putting up the shitting again, shall I?
Speaker 2:that's exactly what happens, though they're just just like, oh she's so difficult, but in reality I mean it's just people who did their homework.
Speaker 4:How dare they?
Speaker 2:be educated and educate themselves. Or you're told like you should just want a happy baby, healthy baby, happy mom, you know, and it's like well, yeah, no, I definitely, definitely want that. At the end of the day, I want my self and my child to go home alive. But there are some other things that I would like, if possible. If everything's going smoothly, why can't we do these things? I?
Speaker 1:feel like it's a bit dismissive when they say that you know like I get it. Happy, healthy baby is the best. But if there's actual concern, someone is saying and then that's your answer, it's a bit dismissive, yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean, I know it's happening, but I keep going back to if this was an appendectomy or an appendectomy, or if this was a wisdom tooth removal or whatever. Would we be saying the same thing, like? Would we be saying it doesn't, it doesn't matter, actually, if you're in pain, um, you're gonna get your appendix out, that's the main thing, like right, you wouldn't ever do that. Um that was that?
Speaker 3:was that like mad to study that? Did we talk about this? Did we share this about the c-section pain? Looking into women experiencing pain like being able to feel yeah, the feel parts of the surgery.
Speaker 4:I don't think and again no I only did anesthetics for a bit. I'm like what? What was this? I need to read the paper because it's a new york times article, but the videos are going around the internet and I need to find out.
Speaker 4:Like were these emergency sections? Were these women's with epidurals? Were they topped up epidurals finals? You know what tests were they having done before? Was it a crash section where you know time is just everything's crazy? Or was this an elective, almost like completely not understandable?
Speaker 4:Was this an elective section where someone is had, has had a spinal, and is feeling like they can't speak up for themselves? Like, what were the settings and why is it varied? Is it just happening across the board? I mean, it's all totally terrifying that women aren't being listened to. Um, and it's actually the association of anisys, which was british, which has come out with some guidance that's referenced in this new york times article saying um, you need to talk to the way, but having done on a set, I can't picture a single um. You know doctor that I worked with, but that's the trap you fall into as a doctor. You go no, surely we wouldn't do that to somebody. People are coming forward with their stories, so I just I really need. I need to like find out more about that, because it's just terrifying to think that women it's terrifying, as someone who's having one in November, to think that you could be you know, be in that position and and feel everything and not be believed Like would that. That would never happen in any other surgery.
Speaker 2:No, not. I have been in one where it was an elective and she, um, it just did not work. It truly did not work. They tried three times. Um, it gave her more drugs and she could she could feel it was a spinal.
Speaker 2:Um, because it was an elective section, um, and yeah, we had to convert it, which you never want to do in an elective section. It makes you look so bad that you're converting it to a ga. But we were like listen, if you can truly mean, I had knife to skin and she was like stop, and so we had to like cover everything up and we explained like you have to go to sleep. Then and she was obviously terrified because you're, all of a sudden, you're like wait, I'm going to be put to sleep, like this is massive surgery and like what's going gonna happen to my baby, and we're like yeah, okay, I'm so sorry, but we actually don't have a lot of time right now because we have now an open gash in your tummy, so we kind of need you to just like consent to this, like give us your, and you're going night night night.
Speaker 4:I only had about once when I was at medical school on my pediatric placement, and it was the handover in the morning after and it happened to a friend of mine.
Speaker 3:This exact scenario happened to a friend of mine and she got had to go to sleep and then she woke up and she was still in like terrible pain. I mean it just I don't. I don't think it's very common, right, but the thing that struck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, happened to me Bridget, that was me and Jack, remember, because they didn't know mine wasn't working.
Speaker 2:So you had a non-working epidural but you were pushing, so that's different then he rolled me in though for the c-section and to test.
Speaker 1:He tipped the scalpel on my belly and I said I can feel that, I can feel that. And then that's when he decided to knock me out and I wasn't there for jack's birth.
Speaker 4:I wasn't awake oh, no I love the way are you coming forth with the actual, like first answer?
Speaker 3:yeah it's you like but I mean, maybe it's not that uncommon because it's happened to you and I'm there trying to block it out.
Speaker 4:It's like someone who's a having one and b did anesthetic. I'm like. I'm like how I've been there when they test it. How can they just be like, no, we'll just crack on. But all four of us have seen it happen or know someone who's had it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to themselves so it does happen yeah, okay, good luck.
Speaker 4:Good luck, nancy. My own old-grade theaters, yeah.
Speaker 2:Amazing. What do you guys hope for in the future regarding both your platform and just like women's health, like what is your ultimate like in your fantasy world? What does women's health look like? Like if, in your fantasy world? What?
Speaker 4:does women's health look like? I think that it is given the same weight and credibility that women, when they have a problem, or, you know, people with a female reproductive system, when they have a problem, they go to their doctor and they are taken as seriously as anyone else.
Speaker 4:And I'm very lucky that I'm working again, that has walked into the room, and I'm very lucky that I'm working again with GPs, where the ones that I have seen with with these you know working with these issues are very understanding. But I know that that is not the experience that a lot of women are having and a lot of women who've come to me and told me that they're not having this experience elsewhere and I think that is the one thing I just that hearts sink happening most days. Um, I would want to change and that my friends, when they're telling me stories about you know they're going to the doctor and whatever outcome they've had, I'm not sitting there thinking, oh god, they didn't ask you this, they didn't check that. And I feel like if you'd gone in with you know something else, that you would have been treated differently, or if you'd been someone else, you'd have been treated differently. I think that for me, would be a big, a big thing um, um.
Speaker 3:And yeah, I mean I agree with Lucy. I mean if I was like, nah, I'm not bothered about that, I really kind of I feel like nothing is really going to get any better until the gender health gap doesn't exist anymore. And obviously this is huge, because it's a huge gap and the stats around it are just like when you dive into them and it's like just mind-boggling when you kind of see it in black and white, like we talked about it the other day, that less than 2.5 percent of public funding in the UK goes towards, um, like anything like reproductive health, gynecological, like anything like you know, you can see that that there is no, that that gap closing. It feels like, uh, I don't know, it feels like hopeless, yeah, like really really hopeless and my like if, if any, if this could achieve anything.
Speaker 3:I mean the grand, like the ambition for what nobody told us, that is, that it can kind of grow, this movement that makes a lot of noise and starts changing things at kind of a, a policy level, whereby there is more money going into pots of funding for research around this stuff, because until that, until that research is happening, like the dial's not going to shift, but also, like you know, into health and into education and awareness and that we can see that gender health gap closing, like like off the back of our hard work. But I but I don't mean that at all, but I like that is like ultimately we want to create a better world for our daughters and our sons um, but because I'm scared.
Speaker 3:Right now I'm really scared for the the world and in many, for many, many reasons, I'm scared for the world that my children are growing up in, but particularly as a girl like, yeah, not being able to find your voice, not being able to advocate for yourself, not being able to understand or understand your own needs, ask for what you need. It just feels like this kind of it's not going to get any better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it took me no go Lucy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was just gonna say I think it'd be lovely that the education side of what we're doing wasn't needed, Like it'd be so lovely. Yeah, we're just. It was like we were reading the alphabet. That because I don't think that it's comparable. The stuff that we're talking about. I don't think it's necessarily comparable to being like, well, you're a doctor, so you know, you can't expect us all to be doctors, which I think is slightly what people think when they go to health, education and stuff.
Speaker 4:I think some of this stuff is very much things that we live with day to day and affect us very frequently throughout our lives, and none of these issues are things that people are going to have once. You know they're going to have multiple times or they're going to have multiple issues throughout their life, and I think it's okay to be educated about those things and to have discussion around those things normalized, in the same way that you would say, well, you're going to run a marathon, you might want to get some new trainers, but break them in first. Do you know what? I mean? You'd have some general advice that everyone kind of knows. And why can't it be like that about reproductive health? Um, why is it shrouded in mystery and I think it'd be really nice to not have an audience because everyone already knows it, and and and then to move into this, this, this issue, when it comes to, like um policy and changing things, I think that's that would be lovely to be our next, our next thing as well.
Speaker 2:I think it has to come from removing shame, though, first. Like it took me until I was in my 20s to just like grab a tampon out of my bag and walk to the bathroom and not like hide it under a sweatshirt or like in a pocket or be like I hope it doesn't fall on the floor, or even like say I need a tampon out loud now. That's like my little act of defiance. I'm like I need a tampon, do you?
Speaker 1:never want to hear me. Nothing doesn't make it any better when we're teenagers.
Speaker 4:it's a sugar packet, oh yeah Like, why are we hiding it as a?
Speaker 1:sugar packet.
Speaker 4:Oh, my God, it's just terrible. Like putting them in your boot, putting them in your bra, putting them in your sleeve. It's like here are your options. Your option is to do what Bridget's doing and just walk out of the room holding on. Kids are like oh okay, here's how I hide my. Yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 2:I mean, that is such a little thing. But that is where I feel like so much shame starts, because when you get your period, you could be like 10, 11, 12, you could be very young. And then it's like, okay, so you're gonna sneak, sneak into your backpack, you're gonna shove it down your sleeve and then hope that no one notices you in the school bathroom and then just quietly just throw it away but wrap it in a bunch of toilet paper so nobody knows what it is. And it's like what. This is insane, why, what magic trick am I pulling?
Speaker 4:and you like. When you, when we were younger, I think we thought that this generation that's coming up now would have a handle on it all, and my middle-aged daughter was telling me a story recently that she was in sex ed class.
Speaker 4:Again, you know, she is at an all-girls school, to be fair, an all-girls state school in London, so it's, like you know, pretty broad. Lots of people have been removed from the class, lots of people are making jokes, like you know. It's a very, like you know, range of attitudes. And, um, she because she's being brought up by me and my husband was answering every question and the reaction was ew, why do you know those things, why do you know so much about this? And and I was like, oh no, now I've like messed up her street cred or whatever. But also, it's still happening. The shame is still totally there that if you understand your body, and know your body, you are a weirdo.
Speaker 4:And the boys are in the school down the road making jokes about wanking and you know that's happening.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:But the girls can't know the answer to like what are the options if you get your first period like it's just terrible, oh god, yeah, we gotta start teaching her to say how do you not know this? And then just turn back around, couldn't?
Speaker 4:pay me to be in New York again, right.
Speaker 2:So we know that there is no research into women's health. The NIH published a systematic review in 2022 exploring it. So historically, this is kind of just like the you know broad strokes. Historically, medical studies have excluded female participants and research data collected from males usually is generalized to females, which is, bananas like, so different. And those who are intersex do not have any reproductive anatomies with one or the other are just completely overlooked. One or the other are just completely overlooked. And you know a lot of reasons to preferring males in research is concerns for decreasing fertility or harming pregnancy, there's researcher bias from predominantly male researchers and perception of the male as representative of the human species and therefore the norm the default male that pisses me off a lot yeah, that's like, that's really fucking annoying we're all just silently fuming
Speaker 2:well, you know, technically we all start off as female in utero, so why are we not the default?
Speaker 4:yeah, I just sure, surely that? I mean it's a bit like how um sports companies are finally latching on to the idea that actually if they do uh sponsorship with um companies, usually targeted at uh women, they'll actually get loads of money because women spend more on um. So have you seen this formula one? So aston martin like I would not know the name of this, I want to say car um aston martin.
Speaker 4:Aramco has done a uh crossover with elemis um, and so these gorgeous, like racing green leather wash bags with like goodies in and it's got the Aston Martin logo on, because women, if they like something, will go and spend their money on it in a way that men just don't. And I'm like, surely there's an equivalent like, you know, a we're out of the workforce when we're, you know, got heavy periods or things like that. There's got to be an economic argument for like, just go and experiment on. If women don't want to be experimented on, go and experiment on them and find the drugs that work, because surely you'll open up more avenues. I'm not enough of a scientist, but surely there's an entire door you haven't opened and that's not very sciencey to be like.
Speaker 2:I'm just not looking no, but it's that whole oh potentially will ruin her fertility and it's like there. You know, there are people who a don't want children, or b are willing to risk it, or c are post-menopausal anyway, and they're just like nope the assumption that all women want children.
Speaker 4:So it's like we can't do that because you know she's a woman of a recurring age yeah, I hate that phrase like as if that's my function from the age of like 12 to 40 is that yeah, it's just horrific, yeah, yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 2:So unfortunately we're all thrown in that group. So that's why we cannot be touched, because, god forbid, you change your mind and in 10 years you want kids. They can't risk it. But females are only represented in about 37% of randomized control trials and even if they don't mention gender, it's only 37% representation of women. So we're not getting enough representation, which means we'll never have the data to back it up. But just some more horrible facts. So I'm just going to fire them Just to make you laugh. Yeah, yeah, everyone get fired up.
Speaker 2:So Yentl syndrome, which is named after you know, like Barbra Streisand the old school movie Yentl, it's a phrase coined by Dr Bernadette Healy that describes how, for a woman's illness to be taken seriously, she must prove herself to be as unwell as a male counterpart. So Yentl syndrome as a cause of delayed care for female patients. So you know, women, if you go in and you describe your symptoms, you might get delayed care, which means delayed treatment, which can obviously lead to mortality, morbidity. They may apply inappropriate, ineffective or harmful treatments or withhold effective treatment. So you have to prove that you are in as much pain as a man with a heart attack to be taken seriously.
Speaker 2:It's a little bit like the argument.
Speaker 4:I can't remember who said it recently, so I feel really bad. This is not my idea. Someone was saying recently that a way of being taken seriously by your doctor is either to take your husband with you, your heteronormative relationship with you and and basically talk about the impact it's having on them. What I think oh, I think I can't. I can't remember he said it, but basically that the that seemed to be the thing that actually made people start listening to her was the fact that she was going. It's affecting my marriage, it's affecting my husband's sleep, it's affecting his work Was like an objective, like marker of like okay, this is serious and it's affecting oh my, I'm afraid you'd die on him.
Speaker 1:Who's going to care if he was laundering?
Speaker 2:You're going to have a relationship to flash at your doctor Like, oh my God who's gonna do his laundry relationship to flash at your doctor like, oh my god, this is terrible. Oh so when it affects his work, then we can take it seriously, but god forbid, it affects my work. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 4:you're probably making it up.
Speaker 2:Really well, you're yeah you're too emotional, that's right. No, I forgot that. I do make up everything I forgot. Yeah, I just want to waste doctor's times.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh, my god that yeah, and I used to see that quite a bit with anesthetics when I'd, you know, get called to do like a difficult cannula, um and it was for pain relief or something, or something was happening. They were discussing pain relief or whatever, and um, so it wouldn't be a patient like beforehand known to me and there'd be this discussion around oh she's, you know, she's asking for this, she needs this. Like, okay, you can, you can give it to her, she's in pain Like you just tend to make stuff up for fun.
Speaker 4:That's a very small cohort of patients that are, you know, exhibiting drug seeking behaviors. You don't want to see it every night of the week, mate. Give her the pain relief. Yeah, lack of reflection, I think, on the doctors at that point and the fact that they're so open with it is always. It's a bit like, um, people who brag about you know, or like tagging your graffiti, like okay, it's one thing that you think, that you're saying that out loud, like that's just. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:The lack of insight it's mostly with the you know the female ward you get a bunch of, unfortunately, endo patients and every doctor on that ward will be like, oh my god, they won't shut up, they're in so much pain. It's like what have you given them paracetamol? And you're like, okay, right, so the thing you take for a headache you thought would somehow cure her deep uterine pain, like what?
Speaker 4:do you think she may have tried that?
Speaker 2:yeah, that is a very common um thing, unfortunately, even among gynecologists, though. They're just like, oh god, an endo patient, oh great, she's crazy.
Speaker 4:I think like Marissa and Tess as people who don't work in medicine so much. What would you say when you hear like that half? You know obviously Bridget and I are talking about experiences where it's other clinicians that are saying this stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm. I mean, it doesn't shock me. It's kind of translates similar into the therapy field. There's, you know, a bunch of people who still, like older generation, think therapies joke, oh, talk about feelings, stuff like that. I even had some of my own trolls on my therapy Instagram where it was an ad for couples therapy and honestly, this had to be like a 13-year-old boy, because the inexperience he was saying was crazy. And it said something about like you know, it's okay, you go through ups and downs, like come in for couples therapy, whatever. And he commented like if you need couples therapy, that's not your soulmate, because marriage should be easy, and if you have ups and downs, that's not your soulmate. I want to be like are you 13?
Speaker 1:I'm like oh my god, no, I was like um, tell me, you've never been married before. Like, how old are you?
Speaker 4:it's amazing. It's like a lack of insight can stay with you until even when you're then. I think what bridget and I sort of experiencing is like oh no, you're now in a position to affect change on these people and you still hold those beliefs, like that's yeah, and it's like you wonder why people don't speak up about things that like, things that are worrying them, things that are causing them pain, you know, like anything why it's hard to find your voice when you know that that view can be quite pervasive.
Speaker 3:Right that like it's not real, or they're annoying, or they're making it up, or they're exaggerating, or you know they're hysterical if you're gonna go with the old tropes yep, um yeah, oh yes, and that's really anxiety too, like if I have uh clients who have, you know, general anxiety and experience panic attacks from time to time.
Speaker 1:If they have friends who don't have anxiety, they really think like panic attacks are just like all in your head, like calm down, like you can stop them, but there's like certain steps that they do to calm themselves and their friends just don't understand it it's amazing, that's amazing.
Speaker 4:It's all in your head. You're like, yes, that's the thing that's controlling me, that is the problem.
Speaker 3:Oh, my god we could talk about this stuff right for a very long time, and what we've seen as well is that, like coming through through messages and stuff that we get, we get these like essays oh yeah women who just haven't been listened to or like, oh, this thing, you know we will share a study, for example, like you know something, like some of the things that we've been talking about, and then we'll get responsive, like that was me, and just in the way that we just have done, talking about the c-sections, it's like just the I and I think there's it is that kind of female thing around, kind of gathering and tending and befriending and like sharing stories and stuff. But I think there aren't even many opportunities for women to be like, hey, that same thing happened to me, that happened to you what?
Speaker 3:oh my god, that and this is what. This is how it affected me and this is how I managed it, and yeah it's kind of wild that that that even like people are turning to us to tell their stories like, yeah, these two random women.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we could be anyone. We could be AI, data gatherers like and women are well, for the most part, women sending in their stories, opening up, sharing really intimate aspects of their life and, I think, just want to be heard. They just want you listened to. They've been exactly like Saskia says they've been dismissed and it's the. There's always like a story, there's like a narrative, there's a this and then this happened and then this, and you just think we've all got stories like that where, if you asked us, we could talk for hours because it's so traumatic or it's so it changes who you are on a very deep level and we are still searching for how did that happen or why? Probably all just need to go speak to Marissa but walking down the street. There are going to be so many people with those feelings and that history and I'm sure you could say that about a lot of people, but the thing that our followers have is is that thread is? It's about this one part of their body really and not being listened to? It's?
Speaker 1:yeah, I definitely think it's important you know, like that women are sharing these stories and then you're sharing them to your community so that they can see, yeah, they're not alone.
Speaker 2:There's so many others and you know, I feel like that's a good like village to have you know which is crazy, because we're the people who have to grow the future of society and birth the future of society and usually raise the future of society, even if you do have a great partner.
Speaker 4:You'd think everyone would want to know your experiences because literally, the future hinges on how we do yeah, these, these people who dismiss us, seem to forget that, like, like, our kids will pay their pensions and we're working and paying taxes that will look after their health care well in this country.
Speaker 4:I don't know about you guys. Sorry, um, sorry, marissa, but um, it's just. It's just horrifying and like I literally at the moment I'm trying to how wide is this going to go? Getting a little bit of some issues in the workplace, sorting out my mat leave and I'm like I cannot be the first pregnant person that like statistically that does feel unlikely. But I need to feel like a complete inconvenience. Um and it that that is in the relatively cushy world of nhs health care in terms of, yeah, we did, yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, I can't imagine like doing that in the private sector and worrying about my job however long I'm off and all that sort of stuff like no, my best friend shannon, she just started her mat leave and they she's in Jersey in the States and she all her coworkers not her bosses like her coworkers who are older than her and they didn't have state funded mat leave because they're decades older, like their kids are in their twenties and thirties, and they like shat on her and were like you're taking maternity leave, like we didn't have that in my day and she was like well, guess what?
Speaker 1:I get paid and I'm going to take every damn day. What is it, marissa? Four months or six months? So well, it's broken down into two parts. It's either six weeks or eight weeks, depending on vaginal or C-section, and then after that you get 12 weeks. Which one gets more C-section Cause you get the eight weeks and the 12, but this is only new jersey, no other state in the us pennsylvania has one as well, but it's all based on your employer.
Speaker 4:It's not like yeah I love that they've decided which one's more traumatic. Oh yeah, I definitely have an easier ride after my elective sections than some vagina things I've seen that's. That feels really unfair for some woman who ends up with some horrific with a, a fourth degree tear who can't pee.
Speaker 2:But yeah, they um, they just kind of like quantify it that way. But um, I mean, it's all semi-recent, Marissa, right, Like maybe in the last decade or so.
Speaker 1:I just can't believe it's not across all States. So like States that okay. So if you're not in Pennsylvania or New Jersey, what you're just screwed like, you better get back to work your private employer, your private employer, whatever they allow you, which is normally only about six to eight weeks, I think oh my god, what sorry things about America, but mat leave is definitely up there.
Speaker 2:I know that I don't know what the hell is wrong. And then there is a very negative view where they say if you know, like if you take your mat leave now, you're not proving your worth at the company, etc. And it's like so, then they have this blanket treatment of all women of childbearing age where they're like well, we could pay you less because you might go on that leave. And if she's like, well, I'm, you know, actually like I'm single and I don't want a kid, and they're like, ah, but one day you're gonna go on mat leave. And if she's like, well, I'm, you know, actually like I'm single and I don't want a kid, and they're like, ah, but one day you're gonna go on mat leave and you're gonna really fuck us over and you're gonna leave for six weeks. So now you know it's really fucked up, but that is how people like justify the gender wage gap in the US yeah, I do.
Speaker 4:I mean, I hear about that happening here quite a bit, to be honest. Um, just worrying about your job for your entire mat leave and feeling like you still need to be in touch yeah and then people being like when are you going on your break, when are you on your leave? It's like a holiday yay. I would probably rather have mat leave than have to work. Yeah, yeah, it works quite hard. I would probably rather have. Matt Leith than have to work. Yeah, no.
Speaker 2:It works quite hard, oh fun, fun, fun times.
Speaker 3:God, those stats that you read out there. They're from the book, aren't they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're updated ones from the National Institute of Health. Yeah, so terrible I have to, just like I had to stop doing a little research. I was like is pissing me off and you know it just makes me mad, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's like if you want that quick fire way to feel like utterly furious, yeah, I think you know exactly what to do, exactly, and you're like oh, I think you know exactly what to give, and it's like exactly. And you're like oh, I'm dead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, furious but helpless. I hate that feeling of like despair. That's what kills me. It's like I'm not a researcher and I don't make policy changes, so, but like who is gonna fight in our corner? That's what I end up feeling like.
Speaker 4:So then I'm like hmm, that's why I'm so excited to be working with Saskia, because she does have these sort of ways of thinking that I think is so different to when you're a doctor. I think it's a little bit like the difference between being a public health doctor and being like a GP.
Speaker 4:I feel like I'm dealing with the problems in front of me and I think SAS has got that broader okay, but how do we actually make change top down rather than like I'm there being, like I'm going to tell everyone about PMDD this week and and I think I think you, I think when you work as a pair, you have these very different perspectives and I find that really exciting.
Speaker 3:I'm putting it all on you to ask basically to change the world, sorry, yeah, also like that's great because I'm learning what PMDD is like.
Speaker 1:I'm learning things every day. What a combo.
Speaker 4:I think it's rapidly following ADHD as, just like we're all self-diagnosing yeah, yes, that that's the new endo. I think everyone's gonna be like wait a second yeah, I guess you say that thing of just like I don't know if I have PMDD or three days a month. I just can't tolerate any bullshit. And then the serotonin kicks back in and I'm like I'll put up with it again for the 25 days.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Right. So thank you so much to our guests from their platform, their page. What nobody told us which is really great, so everyone go check it out Um is the is your Instagram handle at what nobody told us.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's perfect. Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 1:Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:Thank you. It has been fun and infuriating, and that's exactly how we like to end things, yeah absolutely you.
Speaker 1:It has been fun and infuriating, and that's exactly how we like to end things.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely thank you so much, guys. So nice to meet you and speak to you again, bridget bye.