Psychotic P***y Podcast
Just two sisters discussing women’s mental and physical health. It's not only our hobby, but our careers. We want to shed light on important topics & teach people new things every episode.
Psychotic P***y Podcast
AI Therapy: The Dangerous Rise of Digital Mental Health
The rise of AI chatbots masquerading as mental health professionals has sparked fierce resistance from actual therapists—and with good reason. In this eye-opening episode, we unpack the deadly consequences when venture capitalists prioritize profit over people's wellbeing. We share shocking real-world examples: a man with schizophrenia who tested an AI that enthusiastically encouraged him to stop taking his medication, and the heartbreaking case of a teenage boy who committed suicide after an AI validated his darkest thoughts.
What makes this trend particularly insidious is how these companies claim their systems are "trained" while potentially violating patient confidentiality and HIPAA regulations. Unlike legitimate therapists who coordinate emergency services when clients are in danger, AI chatbots simply tell users what they think they want to hear—a practice known as "love bombing"—without any safety protocols in place.
The conversation shifts to another bizarre trend: men shaving their eyelashes to appear more masculine. This practice, which gained traction after public figures like JD Vance were mocked for their naturally long lashes, ignores the important protective function eyelashes serve. Doctors warn that removing eyelashes can lead to painful infections and eye problems—hardly the masculine image these men are trying to project!
We also discuss the broken American healthcare system, where insurance companies routinely obstruct access to care through high copays and "clawbacks," reclaiming payments from providers months after services are rendered. This forces many Americans to choose between financial security and necessary mental healthcare, creating the very vulnerability that predatory AI services exploit.
Have you encountered these AI therapy services or other questionable health trends? Share your thoughts with us on social media or leave a review. Your mental health deserves real human connection, not algorithmic approximations!
Disclaimer: This podcast represents the opinions of Dr. Bridget Melton, MD and licensed therapist Marissa Volinsky, MS, LPC, NCC. The contents of our podcast and website should not be taken as medical advice. The contents of our podcast and website are for general informational purposes only, and are not intended to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition or disease or substitute for medical advice. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before starting or discontinuing treatment.
If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis, please reach out immediately to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255 or text HOME to the Crisis Text Line at 741741. These services are free and confidential.
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Hello and welcome back to season three, episode what is it? Four, I think, I think. Woohoo. We don't even know Of Psychotic PY Podcast. Today we have a special guest if you're here in the background, cute little Theo Theo Bear. And also the special guest of finally we're drinking together, woohoo cheers. Hanseko Damayo, that's a real clink clink. You heard, it's a real clink clink. And also the special guests of finally we're drinking together, whoo cheers on Cinco de Mayo. That's a real clink clink. You heard, it's a real quick click. And Bridget has made sure her breastfeeding schedule aligns with her drinking.
Speaker 2:That's what you gotta do. Welcome everybody. We're recording on Cinco de Mayo, cinco de Drinco, cinco de Gringo.
Speaker 1:We're doing it brought to you by on the rocks, on the rocks um margarita yeah, so the brand is called on the rocks and anyone who's had them knows that you can get like anything like a cosmo, anything like that, and it's you just pre, it's pre-mixed, you just pour it over ice and it's freaking good.
Speaker 2:It's with cornitos and tequila. It's strong, it is strong. That's our plug for on the rocks.
Speaker 1:You're welcome on the rocks if you'd like to sponsor us, feel free I accept payment in the form of tequila I mean you could just venmo me, it's fine. Oh, is anybody here? Theo, he's excited because he is eating what is eating for john beets and lentils.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry it sounds gross, but it's for sure oh yeah, he likes it.
Speaker 1:Okay, he's a healthy boy. So, anyway, today's topic let's dive right in First and foremost is have anybody has heard now? He's excited. He's as angry as me about this AI chatbots trying to replace actual, knowledgeable, educated therapists. I'm sure, before I even go into this, you're all saying that is illegal and probably unethical and dangerous. You're 100% correct. It is A lot of people in my field, a lot of therapists, my field, a lot of therapists.
Speaker 1:We have a lot of group chats and facebook groups and we stay very active and we are trying to fight it and I believe, actually, one of the states won recently. Was it illinois? I think it was illinois like they won, saying like they were not going to allow that. Um, because what's happening is a lot of um, rich venture capitalists are trying to come in, as always, get like their 18th yacht.
Speaker 1:They don't care about you or your family or actual productive health from someone who's well-educated, and they want you to just find you know, talk to an AI, grab your money and they're selling it to these people because they know right now with the economy, things are not going so great. So they know that you obviously are struggling with mental health, but you don't have the money, maybe for like a high copay or a self-pay session. So what they're saying is, when they promote this is oh well, for just 20 or $30, you could talk to an AI chatbot instead of maybe like a $50 copay or stuff like that. The problem is is there are stories popping up all over of where this is incredibly dangerous.
Speaker 2:Bridget go ahead yeah, so I actually just read an article um, I can't remember who posted it originally, but the skim um posted it in their daily letters. Um, so they're love bombing, basically okay. So first of all, you need to understand how ai works. They collate a bunch of data from the internet basically it's like google times 10 and they just take all that and formulate an answer that they think is most suitable. They don't actually have human reason, so they cannot gauge a response based on the actual situation, correct? So they're love bombing because that's like a, something that they find on the internet that people love to hear. They're like oh yes, queen, you go, girl. So there's a real life example of a. I think it was a man who has schizophrenia and he told his AI chatbot yeah, he's upset. I'm going to Theo's talking to a dog right now A real one, not an AI one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a real one.
Speaker 2:He said I'm going to stop taking my antipsychotic medications. And the chatbot responded like yes, king, you do it. Like do it for yourself, boy. And he was like he did this to prove that you cannot substitute this for therapy. And then he, you know, had screenshots and everything. This thing, basically, would have convinced someone who's mentally unwell to stop taking their antipsychotic medications because it thinks that's the answer.
Speaker 1:You want to hear, yes, which, as Marissa knows, therapy is not just giving you the answer you want to hear Correct and also we always speak with, like outside resources and referrals and situations where like say, if we know someone is suicidal, right, we call the hotline for that or we get them a higher level of care. These are things we do outside of session to make sure our client is a hundred percent safe and gets the help they need. Even if it isn't it's not us, it's someone else at the higher level, fine, I know who to call, you'll be safe. A chat bot is not going to do that.
Speaker 1:I feel like a few months ago, before you even mentioned this, bridget, I had originally started hearing about it because a teenage boy maybe 12 or 13, did commit suicide because they were talking to the ai snapchat you know that snapchat and like I forget it I don't want to quote things because, again, I don't remember exactly what they said but it kind of like assisted him in saying, like it'll be fine, like everyone will be fine in your absence, like just do it, we talked about this, um god, that's horrendous she's.
Speaker 2:I know the mother's suing. Yeah, my God. We did talk about this a few sessions ago where they are encouraging because we have talked about this definitely where Gen Z doesn't have the same social skills because they're not reaching out in person, so parents are encouraging them to have any form of conversations, even if that is with chat, gpt, sorry he's so cute.
Speaker 1:Guest star is really distracting.
Speaker 2:He actually loves that um, so they're encouraging them to have any form of communication with somebody, even if that's with the chat, gpt, ai, whatever and, um, like, they're using it as therapy, even if they're not using this truly like the way that these people want it to be. They're just chatting and they find that it releases a bit of a mental load because they have somebody to talk to. Bit sad, yes, but also, like we said, they're just feeding you information that they think you want to hear. It's really tragic.
Speaker 1:We have to consider is, if you want therapy and you think talking to an AI is better than a therapist, then ask yourself if you need therapy, if just Googling things is good enough, because that's what you're doing WebMD for diagnosis, that's all it is. It's just, instead of having to physically search, it's doing it for you. You know like you're asking the question and it's pulling up all the info. Yes, that's all it's doing.
Speaker 2:I mean, the same could be said about you know, if you were truly, let's say, suicidal ideation, stuff like that, and you wouldn't just talk to your friends, you wouldn't be like, should I do it right? Like your friends obviously are the first point of call, maybe because you need to talk to support, but that should not be like I'm taking their medical advice correct, correct, um also.
Speaker 1:So what the thing with this is? Because now these venture capitalists we call them bcs, um, they're kind of trying to push back, saying well, they are trained, like they how are they trained?
Speaker 1:this is why they're allowed to legally say that, even though I'll tell you what they mean by trained. What they did was so recently, maybe within the last year or two, things came out to automate stuff for us to make our life easier, and as long as we allowed the client to know that it was happening and they signed off on it, it was a we were allowed to do it. And what I mean is it allows this process to listen to the session again. It doesn't save a war. They claimed it didn't save it for hipa reasons, but then after the session, before they claim they would delete the session, they would write a note for you because it cut back on note writing for therapists, right, so therapists could just be therapists and not have to do notes we're already entering a really dangerous it was training, yeah, that whole time.
Speaker 1:So now they're fighting back in court saying, well, they, they are trained by licensed therapists.
Speaker 2:No, you stole our sessions, yeah we're also entering a huge data protection issue, because if they're using that for training without patient, patient consent, yes I never did it because obviously when we talked about it in the group I'm in, they're like don't do it.
Speaker 1:They suspected this. Of course we were all worried that we were just kind of like um going down a rabbit hole, conspiracy theorist. But it turns out we were right. Um, also, I found it to be highly unethical.
Speaker 2:I was like I'm not gonna tell my clients this no, the same way that you have an automated phone call and says for training purposes, you will be recorded unless you are telling your patients that for training purposes, you are violating HIPAA yes, right, correct, correct.
Speaker 1:so also, what I don't like about it is you. They don't know who is actually a good therapist or not. So what if you were listening on bad therapists? Right? So now you're trained off of bad therapists there are, unfortunately, I hate to admit it, there's a bunch in every field and we definitely have our bunch. So also, it does probably attract lazier therapists, right? People who just don't want to do the hard part of therapy, which is all the notes and forms, so they might be a more higher percentage of worse therapists, right? Yeah, so now you have to consider okay, so they are trained, but if they're trained by bad therapists, you're getting bad therapy. It's concerning.
Speaker 2:It's extremely concerning, I mean, unless we're looking through everyone's credentials, their records, their okay, right, their patient, um, also might I add?
Speaker 1:sorry to interrupt you, they're not specifying if they're getting them from LAC or LPC versus LSW, lcsw, so you have the lower, so okay.
Speaker 1:So when you first get out of grad school you are considered a lower credential, like I was an LAC at first and I had to get 4,500 hours and spend and you couldn't do it all in one year. They want to. It had to be three years minimum because they didn't want people to cry, they want you to have experience. So so for three years I was an lac, before I came an lpc right and basically that means you're you know, you're fresh out of grad school, you really don't know what you're doing, and these places they, when you're signing up for these automated notes that they're training ai off of, you can be an lac of course, okay.
Speaker 2:So you have not a lot of real world experience. You're just getting your feet wet in your field and now we're using you to train ai, which is going to all patients that's so which, by the way, the biggest, obviously highest mistakes is in the beginning of your career.
Speaker 1:That's how you learn. So I mean also, they are all allowing interns, graduate interns, to use this. So now we're getting interns.
Speaker 2:So now, if you're an l, what was it?
Speaker 1:lpac is first lpc okay, so now, if you're an, lac or you're an intern.
Speaker 2:Is it correct to say that you might have someone senior working above you? That?
Speaker 1:yes, you have to confer with okay, you have to.
Speaker 2:So if a human with an education degree etc. Has to confer with a senior, a supervisor, a supervisor, before we put your advice out into the world. Why could a chatbot not that's so wrong?
Speaker 1:because they're not owned by a therapist or a social worker, they're owned by a vc. There's no regulation. No, no regulation right also company.
Speaker 1:May I mind you, we have also caught they have been selling this to life coaches, which is an unregulated field, so life coaches may use it too, because they do notes. I could be a life coach, you, you, actually, you can. You could proclaim yourself right now a life coach of grief therapy, and then you're done, right, wow? So they're also doing it, but they may still pile them under their data as a therapist or a counselor, right? So this is a very gray area and the vcs are getting away with it because, well, because they have money and they can throw it at a wall, right, they don't care so how can we okay your governing body?
Speaker 2:I'm assuming you have like a state, oh yeah. So how can we combat this? What do you think?
Speaker 1:People have to stop. Here's the thing. A lot okay, this is a lot of angles here, because in order to fight back against VCs and not use it, you actually have to really get to the core of people in low socioeconomic status who are using this because they can't afford it, but they need therapy, right. So we really need to combat, like, let's find services that are maybe accessible to everybody. And if that means which may go into another topic, because I know he did just cut mental health funding for schools, so for schools, yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's gone.
Speaker 2:Sorry, that sounded lighthearted, not funny.
Speaker 1:So the problem is is we need to find a way where we can allocate funds for mental health for people who can't afford. Right? I know some people have great co-pays. Don't get me wrong, because in my practice alone I have people with like $5 co-pays. But not get me wrong, because in my practice alone I have people with like five dollar co-pays. But not everyone has a great job that gives them a low copay. Right, because I do see a lot of 50, 75, oh yeah. And if you need to be seen once or twice weekly, that's a lot of money, oh yeah. So we need to figure out how to first of all fight insurance companies. People are paying into this and you're making them pay 75 copay. That should be a crime, a crime. Shout out to luigi. What was that kid's name?
Speaker 1:luigi evangio, if you're in prison listening to our podcast, we love you uh, we're going to jail for that.
Speaker 2:It's really effed up what you did.
Speaker 1:No, it is, but like I think everyone was kind of like nice in our therapist group we were like, do you think a jury would acquit him? Just because because, as as like mental health therapists, we're like, yeah, because a lot of us that own our own practices, we know how it is to fight insurance companies and how like they'll pretend to pay you and then claw it back. I don't know if you know what clawbacks is. No, I do when they pay you and then six months later they take it back out of your business account, but you've already paid your employees.
Speaker 2:So you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:How do they get away with that? Or we signed a contract stating they're allowed to claw back if they deem the service wasn't necessary. Yeah, how can they?
Speaker 2:how can an insurance company who's not a health professional say?
Speaker 1:therapy is not necessary. They hire people on their staff that audit and they apparently have our credentials and they apparently know when someone's mentally unwell just by looking at these paper.
Speaker 1:Yep right, yeah, oh, bridget, I guess I haven't told you about this. I think I could go off on two hours. You guys will hate, hate me. Therapists hate insurance. It's like a means to an end, like we need them obviously to make ends meet, but they're so evil and unethical. Honestly, it will take more than two hours, but I digress. I digress this. The hornitos is getting me really angry. It's getting me revved up. We're hornitos, but it is so I. I get so angry. So we really need to combat that, like first, accessible health care funding and also fight the insurance companies. They shouldn't be able to claw back money from people who need therapy, for also, they pay into it, they pay to use their insurance, and now you're saying, oh, you don't deserve it I mean, that's like if someone went to um the emergency room and they had some x-rays and then a random data analyzer was like that was unnecessary.
Speaker 2:How do you know you didn't see the broken wrist? How do you know the x-ray wasn't necessary? How can someone without any medical training just say that doesn't feel necessary?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's getting ridiculous. So point. So we like to all help each other out, obviously in our groups. So we recently learned that when she was audited, even though her everything, her notes were up to par, because she didn't write the, the client said the session helped. She owed thousands of dollars. So I had to up my notes to say yes or no. Drop down for my, my therapist. Did the client find the session helpful? Is that not ridiculous? They're not even the mental health professional.
Speaker 2:You know what's so similar this is so funny Is our mom, jerry. She'll whenever she has physical therapy for something, and she taught me this when I was like 10. I went to physical therapy when I was 10 because of bad knee.
Speaker 1:Anyway, well, you got beat.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just kidding, but when you're in physical therapy, you guys take note of this. Every couple weeks or something, they give you that patient information sheet and it says like where's your pain now? Do you have function back? And at 10, I was like, yes, but I said all this because I really liked my physical therapist and I wanted them to get like a rave. And I was like, yes, killing it, queens, crushing it. Yeah, I didn't know that I was 10.
Speaker 2:So, mom, she had a busted shoulder recently and she's like I still fill out, like cannot open a jar without pain, because she's like that's the only way to get insurance to pay for it, and she's like it's true, but like you have to harp on it, you have to be like I'm still in severe pain, I don't have functional capacity back and I can't open a jar still with my shoulder, and I was like, oh shit, that has no reflection of the quality of care you're getting.
Speaker 1:So don't worry, you're not going to offend your therapist, it's just for insurance purposes yep, I believe um luigi mangione uh did killed the uh ceo on the cusp of united saying, yeah, they were pulling back. Um, what's that thing? I'm sorry because, see, the the alcohol has got me crazy, but what's the thing? You need to anesthesia, thank you, oh yeah, so they pulled back on that um and there were so many um tiktoks of people being like I'm literally um, I just had anesthesia done and my patient's already knocked out, but I have to be on the phone with insurance because they said they weren't gonna pay for this or something like because they they had a limit on anesthesia.
Speaker 1:They weren't gonna pay after a certain so we're not gonna allow people yes, pain, pain, paralyzed surgery and this all was on the cusp of and then, like, like literally month later, after I was watching all these videos of doctors outraged in the U S, he killed the CEO because it was United healthcare who was doing that.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm going to just touch on anesthesia. So anesthesia has three main parts, but the two most important, obviously, are muscle paralysis and pain relief. The third is knocks you out I can't remember the term right now, sorry, I'm having a margarita. So muscle paralysis, basically like sleepy time meds what's the stuff that killed Michael Jackson at propofol? And pain relief. Okay, you need all three of those elements to make a cocktail.
Speaker 2:Now, anesthesiologists as annoying as they are, it's just a medical thing. We always fight with anesthesiologists. They are basically like math whizzes. They work out the exact dose for your age, gender and weight to put you to sleep, to induce muscle paralysis and to relieve your pain. You need those three things Without hurting you, without killing you or being ineffective, which can happen, by the way. So they do the math the night before your surgery. They have all your data. That's why you go for like a pre-op, so they know literally every health biometric measurement. They give you the perfect cocktail to put you to sleep so you don't feel pain. You cannot successfully do these things without the proper dosage. It's not like an anesthesiologist is like shoot them with five milligrams more just for that. That's not how it works. They give you the right amount for the length of surgery that you will be under and for your weight and age. So there is no like she didn't need it, but we gave it anyway. That's called death.
Speaker 1:I feel like I don't think I'm misquoting it, but I remember it was like they were not going to pay for anything over two hours, but some people have surgeries that are five to eight.
Speaker 2:First of all, some people, most people, unless you're in my field, which is obstetrics we keep it under two hours Almost any other surgery. Yes, it was two hours. I'm pretty sure Spinal surgery, neurosurgery, cardiothoracic surgery, Even some general surgeons are relatively fast nowadays. But anything with the bowel we're over two hours.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure. I mean I guess don't quote me because I am drinking, but I'm pretty sure it said anything over two hours was the patient's responsibility. That makes zero sense. So if I needed cardiothoracic surgery because I'm dying, it's my responsibility when I tell you, if that was me, I just never would pay, or only pay $5 a month for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2:How about extremely complex surgeries that we encourage, like organ donation? So now I'm giving up a kidney. You're welcome society. I'm giving up a kidney altruistically, and that's, let's say, you know, takes three to four hours. Now I'm responsible for my anesthesia because I'm doing a good thing.
Speaker 1:They reversed it the day after they found out he shot the CEO. So thank you Luigi, thanks Lulu, a working class hero. That's why my friends in the chat were like you think they will quit him.
Speaker 2:Because, like he did a good deed. I mean, that is some fucked up shit. That's really insane. How do people justify that? I hate insurance companies and I don't even work in this country, but that's one of the big reasons. My husband, who's a doctor as well he's english and he's like I don't want to work in the states because part of your job is if you own your own practice is also being like billing and he's like I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1:I know, but that's like I just, or you do what I did. I don't do therapy anymore, I only do that, that's true, because I honestly, I prefer it because I can work whenever I want, wherever I want yeah, yeah on my hours, you know. So I mean honestly, maybe he's like you know, being a doctor is hard on my feet. Now I'm in my 50s, I prefer to just stay home. My computer new little bill how sad is that that you have?
Speaker 2:to have like a. You know it's just. How is that someone's responsibility like I mean? This is the classic example everybody gives is you're born with type one diabetes. You don't have. You need the insulin, not your fault not your fault at all. Yet they're like you, gotta pay for it, sucker.
Speaker 1:What? It is a bit ridiculous. I've never liked our healthcare system, but I mean I think we need a hybrid situation.
Speaker 2:There are a lot of countries that you can have private and you can have public. So if you're one of them, right, yes, yes, you can have private, kind of. So it's not like everyone has the government cheese. You don't have to do it that way. If you want to pay private, 100, go for a queen. You know what I mean. Theo has feelings about this, and when you do it this way, the private costs much less because not that many people want it, so they have to be competitive, right, right, whereas in the us it's your only option, so they can jack that price up also as high as I want, might I add in this country, which I find is ridiculous, you're punished for not having it, even if you can't afford it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So come tax season, if you don't say you have health insurance, you have a fine, which it's like obviously if I don't have it, I can't pay for it.
Speaker 2:So now you're fining me. I don't have health insurance here, but I pay taxes.
Speaker 1:You're not a full-time citizen. You don't live here a majority of your time.
Speaker 2:Oh, so it doesn't count.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure you're fine. You don't live here a majority of your time.
Speaker 2:Also, I'm pretty sure Jerry takes care of your students. No, no, no, I know, but I have to do it with Steve. No, I almost shit myself. I don't have $800 right now.
Speaker 1:You would have known by now Tax season's over.
Speaker 2:Steve would have told you, Steve.
Speaker 1:Would you like to weigh in Steve? Would, you like to come on Psychotic Pussy Podcast.
Speaker 2:Steve, explain finances to me, Steve.
Speaker 1:Steve, I do love you, but I think if we had a whole 45 minutes on finances, people might tune out they might be bored. I have a brother-in-law who's an accountant and he just explains things to us randomly.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, what are you talking about, john? No, no, no, that's funny. I have a lot of accountants in my life, no, but john doesn't randomly lecture us on finances.
Speaker 1:That's because he honestly, he hates them too he hates how life is.
Speaker 2:No, tom loves it. He's such a nerd. But he'll just be like looking at Theo and give a whole lecture on taxes and everyone will be like nobody cares.
Speaker 1:And I'm like wait, I do, Cause I don't understand money Like explain, but the thing with, as great as that is, he can only explain England, he can't explain.
Speaker 2:I know I'm like someone. Please explain money to me.
Speaker 1:That's how I am. You know what's crazy. I was just thinking recently because some people have wanted to start a practice and they realized they can only do the therapy portion of it. Right and without hiring someone, which cuts into your profits. It probably isn't feasible unless you come into this with like a big lump sum, right, right. I just I feel like I'm so blessed. I'm going to give a shout out to my husband. I was only able to create my business because my husband knows the business side. I don don't do that he does it.
Speaker 1:I worry about the therapy and the therapist and he does the business and that works great, I like. What's crazy is though I wouldn't have known that years ago. So like, thank god I just happened to marry someone who is like that, because what if I would have screwed myself?
Speaker 2:he knows words like fiduciary what does that mean? And I know hornitos guys, this is bang for your buck. We're talking about we're going into a recession. Queens, you're talking, bang for your buck. It's this uh, on the rock, it's really packed. We're one margarita in this tornitos is I'm strong.
Speaker 1:I did the cosmo one.
Speaker 2:I was like on the floor all right you're, you talk, we're talking recession season and only one bottle is like 21 and it's a big bottle you can pass out every day for three weeks wait, wait.
Speaker 1:We're supposed to be a health podcast. We're tracking that. The hornitos has got us talking crazy. Got us talking like ai chop bats okay.
Speaker 2:Do you want to go to sleep with the tequila? Tequila buzz every night for 21 days.
Speaker 1:It's like the infomercial part of it sponsored by hornitos.
Speaker 2:No, no, no on the rocks which is funded by hornitos.
Speaker 1:Theo would like to say a word about the evils of the insurance companies and health care. He is trying to fight the microphone. He wants to lick that microphone. He is so upset he's silenced, he's stunned into silence.
Speaker 2:Theo there.
Speaker 2:Theo. Okay, we're moving on a bit, so this is a total flip of the switch here. But new trend again. Read it in the skim, literally. Read it on the news, in the news. This is a very real thing. That's happening is there's a new trend, new trend alert Men, men who I would say are maybe a bit immature I'm not going to say all men here, men who listen to Andrew Tate, possibly they're trimming, waxing and shaving eyelashes to appear more masculine.
Speaker 2:Weird, very weird Men, apparently just men existing in the world with God-given eyelashes are deemed too feminine no eyeliner, no mascara, no makeup, just a man with a penis and eyelashes Apparently too feminine. One of the people absolutely roasted for just being himself, I assume, was actually Vice president jd vance, who which is why I on our instagram, I posted um an ai image of jd vance in drag. He basically just exists with his god-given eyelashes and people trolled him. They said he was wearing eyeliner and mascara, um, which apparently is not true. He's just kind of pale, with light eyes and dark hair. Um, and men said which is funny because you'd assume, men who would follow this trend kind of support the current administration. But anyway, they trolled jd vance and said uh, he is too feminine, needs to stop wearing eye makeup and that they, to appear more masculine, will start shaving off their eyelashes.
Speaker 2:Now, medically, uh, obviously you're born with eyelashes because they prevent certain particulate matter from getting in your eye. The first, you know all your body hair really is like your first barrier against um infections. Same with earwax it's a barrier against infections getting in your ear. Um, yes, okay, it's a bit hypocritical because, for a reason, people there's no reason. Hypocritical because women like fucking wax everything off. We're like hair, not today. Yeah, as ted always says, anything below the eyelashes women just tend to like electrocute off. We would not do that to our eyelashes, though. That's weird, exactly, baby's gonna sneeze he's about to.
Speaker 2:He's about to um, so hypocritical for us to judge, but we are. So men, uh are doing this and a lot of um doctors and you, or even just like allied health professionals, are kind of saying please don't do this, because you need your eyelashes. Also, if you shave, trim etc. You're opening yourself up to really nasty, ingrown hairs in a very sensitive location. Men know this, because men I know you manscape, obviously, and your hair tends to be a bit thicker, wireier than women's. And so when you do certain like beard shave, neck beard, uh, maybe even pubes, you do get ingrown hairs. It is what it is. You deal with it. Now imagine that on your fucking eyelid you're gonna get a sty weekly, yeah, and you're gonna constantly have. So you want to talk about feminine. You're gonna be walking around with a fucking cold compress on your eye like blind. But that's fine, that's totally just go blind, no big deal, just be uncomfortable and on antibiotics constantly, month, every month, they're on pills and they're complaining with a hot compress yeah, how funny is that?
Speaker 2:so you're basically gonna have your eye period monthly, uh, and you're gonna be like, no, this is masculine, it's just what. What have we on what level of human have we unlocked here, that people are shaving their eyelashes to appear more?
Speaker 1:masculine. I hope it's like literally negative point zero, zero, zero, zero, zero. Two, five of the population Like I hope it's not common.
Speaker 2:I also hope that as well. It's a trend on TikTok. So I just think where is society heading now that we've deemed natural eyelashes I know, in 2008, 2006 to 2010, let's say broad, it was a thing to wear Eyeliner as a man. Very scene, culture, emo scene, et cetera. That was allowed. Okay, that was allowed skinny jeans and eyeliner, but now just men existing too feminine.
Speaker 1:Also I know that some men have great eyelashes, but also some men don't Either. They're so blonde and straight and little that, so like nobody saw your eyelashes anyway, dude.
Speaker 2:Also one thing that men don't either they're so blonde and straight and little that, so like nobody saw your eyelashes anyway, dude. Also one thing that men don't know this because we don't tell them everything but one thing that women are so jealous of when you know, when you see a little boy with dark hair and their eyelashes are fucking glorious yeah, they're curled up.
Speaker 1:It actually makes you more fuckable because we're like maybe our daughter will have exactly I'm so jealous, like our brother, michael has the best eyelashes.
Speaker 2:Best eyelashes also like eyebrow envy, because he could shake them into any. He's like the thickest fucking eyebrows on the planet and eyebrow, eyebrows, eyebrows eyelashes, everything.
Speaker 2:I remember we were in disney and he was like eight years old and a spanish family spanish speaking family was right behind us in line for test track and, um, they were like they were speaking spanish, but I understood what they're saying. They basically said that his eyelashes were so gorgeous and they were jealous and they kept pointing at him and he was like such a beautiful little boy he was. He was like this is not something that makes you unfuckable. No, no, yeah, no.
Speaker 1:People are like jealous, yeah, like when you see a grown man with gorgeous eyelashes, you're like fuck you, I hate you, I'm jealous also, I feel like we're in like a century I'll say maybe century, right, because it's a hundred years for sure where drew tate quality men are trying to look?
Speaker 2:so boys boys.
Speaker 1:So, true, trying to look so masculine, but this is like the first ever because, like previous centuries, men wore wigs. And yes, like they wanted to be feminine.
Speaker 2:It's called dandyism and actually oscar wilde was a dandy and it was basically men who dressed very flamboyantly by today's standards we would say flamboyant when in reality it was just like it was kind of how what's his name? Billy porter showed up to the met gal in 2019 in like a dress and everyone was like he's so gay and it's like whoa wait. Can we just say that women's clothing is gorgeous? It is colorful. Fun changes seasonally. Men's fashion same same same long shorts, short shorts, but same same same used to dress really exactly a wig powdered face.
Speaker 2:Yes, heels, literally heels dandyism died out and michael, our brother, he's a history major. He actually told me the reason and I can't remember now. I think it was no, I think it was. There was a, maybe one of the english princes or something. Yeah, it's something. Uh, shit, I'm gonna misquote this, but it's fine, you're gonna get the gist people the hornitos.
Speaker 2:Um, basically there was like I'm pretty sure some english royalty was like very short or something and like or or too tall his height was a thing because dandy's used to wear heels. So he was like no, like we're just gonna wear black suits. And yeah, yeah, this is true. And so then that became the the norm for men to, because obviously you want to dress like the royalty because they're the trendsetters at that time. So over a century ago, off with his head, one prince basically decided like oh, we're all just gonna like dress pretty plain and like be in accordance with religion and more piety and etc. And that is set the course in motion for men's fashion for the next 150 years to be so dull. So it's not like strange at all. Like I actually like that men's fashion is kind of coming back a bit and it's fine and you can do pops of color.
Speaker 2:My husband, um, I think it was before we went to Mallorca one summer he went shopping at Abercrombie and bought like a ton of like gorgeous linen colorful with floral. Oh my God, they were so great. Bought a ton of like gorgeous linen colorful with floral oh my god, they were so great. Bought a ton. It wasn't. Until we got home we read the label. It said a and f like abercrombie and fish. Bitch um abercrombie and smelly fish ever. That's how I don't get sued. It said abercrombie and fitch pride collection. We didn't even know because, like that, you know, men's fashion is kind of coming back to be a bit more fun, and it was like, oh, we didn't even know he bought the pride collection, like it's nice. Why is it that straight men can only wear fucking black suits for black tie and I'm at, praise you billy porter for being like I think that's his name. Fuck, I'm gonna, I'm wrong again. She said abracadabra and fish.
Speaker 2:So probably not what's his name I don't know anyway but I like that met gala is today and everyone's looking at him to see what he's gonna wear.
Speaker 1:Like I like that you can just wear whatever you want again listen, the best fashion is gay men, because, let me tell you, the things are more fitted, they're more colorful. I'm sorry, but like I was so happy when we got out of the early 2000s with the, the baoji, oh sorry. Wow, no, baggy, I was trying to say baggy's back, I think I said a word. Is that gonna happen?
Speaker 2:also baggy's back. Fuck you bitch. Oh, although wait, kate moss guys trying to learn. Kate moss wore skinny jeans two months ago and I'm just telling you her to hear first skinny jeans are back it's not for two kids and two c-sections.
Speaker 1:I don't have the body for skinny. I don't have the time.
Speaker 2:Remember, like going this is the sound of me jumping, jumping to put skinny jeans on also, we're also cooking your lunch.
Speaker 1:So that's not all her. That's also the crisp pan for what is it called pen gang or penang. I love penang and it's time anyway, the point is, I do think men dress better when it is a bit flamboyant. I'm sorry, it's nice, it's nicer. It's nice to see a man express style baggy, ghetto, I don't need it. I don't need it. You don't look well dressed, you look sloppy.
Speaker 2:Wait can I just say that her husband grills all year round outside in a fucking American flag tank top and like ripped shorts.
Speaker 1:Okay, no, that's because you, you were poor and also he's just so patriotic.
Speaker 2:And she's like I just love a bit of flair.
Speaker 1:But listen, don't lie. On holidays, where I dress her whole family, we all look put together, we all match, we all have a color scheme and he looks fabulous. Every other 300 and say 50 days is none of my business, it's none of my business.
Speaker 2:He does what he wants to do.
Speaker 1:I don't care.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say men's fashion is coming back in a big way. It has been for a few years now, but skinny jeans are back. Sorry, guys, it's true, I know Kate Moss did it to us.
Speaker 1:She did it. I don't have the Italian thighs for that.
Speaker 2:She did it, she did it. I'm sticking up top and not down there of spring. I know it's already may. Now it's may 5th, so you better get on it. Ladies, it's butter yellow. It doesn't look good on my skin tone, but it's fine. I don't wait, marissa, it's my season you look amazing. She was always the yellow power ranger as a kid. Yeah, butter yellow, I'm you're late to it, but get on it well. And skinny jeans, yeah, typical mom fashion.
Speaker 2:I don't know what's I know I'm telling you, I'm giving you the info right now you're yeah, uh, well, you mean you a? I used to be a trendsetter as a kid, that is true, I know. That's ironic now. It's ironic now. We're going off topic. It's ironic now because if you saw me dressed, you'd be like but marissa, is it not true that I used to be like, yeah, I used to be pretty? Why don't you tell them the turban story? Most people don't. Okay.
Speaker 2:So I, very stupidly, grandma died. It wasn't my grandma. Who was it? No, it was Uncle Jack's funeral. No, it was Uncle Jack's no, no, because you were standing at the front. Yes, it was Uncle Jack, who was like another grandpa to us. We, we were going to his funeral. It was 20. Um, I can tell you right now, don't tell me 2011. It was 2011,. Maybe 12. I think it was 2011. Um, and at the time I wore a headscarf, a long one, and my mom said, okay, just when you get to the funeral, make sure you take it off. And I forgot, okay, no, I tried, and I had a bad hair day because the turban was on all day. So I had to put the scarf back on and I showed up to the funeral we're in like the receiving line greeting. This is all our family.
Speaker 1:And my mom came right up to me and was like I can't believe you still have a fucking scarf on your head that season. Marissa, was it not true that that whole summer, literally, head scarves were back, 2011, back. It was all because uncle jack died. Thank you, because bridget got to premiere another time.
Speaker 2:I have another example straight out of teen vogue teen bogan following me in 2010. I remember these days I don't know why I'm such a psycho with this my husband can attest whenever I like. They're like name that movie, like. I can tell you the date. Anyway, it was 2010. It was a dress down day. Shout out to catholic school no, no, new uniform, pay five bucks, whatever.
Speaker 2:Our mom it was very athletic in high school, though so spazzy. Now she had 12 uh letters 12 letters. Well, you know when you get like your letterman's letter. So she ran out of items to put them on. So she started doing like throwback letterman's. She has a jackson. It's gorgeous white, like cream white, not white white and red letterman sweater. Because she's like I had literally so many varsity letters I had to just like start putting them on different things. Um, so she had this gorgeous one jackson. So I wore it with jeans, skinny jeans, because it's 2010. Um, to dress down day with, like my hair, wavy, curly, so chic, so cute. At first everyone was like well, everyone's like your outfit's really cool. But where did you get that Letterman sweater like, is it the 50s?
Speaker 1:and I was like I was a Jackson Memorial class of 81.
Speaker 2:Um, literally that spring. So this was in because I wore a sweater. So it had to be the winter. That spring, teen Vogue, which I subscribed to at the time because I was only 15, had a whole front page. Front page and then a whole article Okay, merce is dancing more on the rocks. A whole fresh bottle. So 42 days of drunk. I was going to just give us one.
Speaker 1:A whole freaking. It was featured on the front page and then a whole spread article about how the new trend for this spring was vintage letterman sweaters. Who brought that back? They're not gonna give you credit. They're gonna say no. Taylor swift wow, taylor swift.
Speaker 2:Taylor swathed, taylor swifty she got into the trendy, uh, the preppy stuff.
Speaker 1:So some people still I know they're really into like we're really getting dressed up in glittery. Now is like her new trend, but like maybe like five to eight years ago, somewhere in that it was where, like it was 2010.
Speaker 2:It was 2010.
Speaker 1:So like people were wearing like Letterman sweaters, like white and then the red, and I'm like that's Jackson Memorial.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is so, and I did this it in an article. This was before Taylor Swift started doing. You're right, though the ultra preppy look she did with the oxfords and the yeah, and this was before that.
Speaker 1:As true Taylor Swift does, because she's smart and I saw her documentary. She always says, like in her documentary.
Speaker 2:Women have to I forget, always have to rebrand yourself if you don't want to become a nobody, which is why she's always rebranding herself. Smart business sense, obviously. Um, like madonna take a note from that book had a british accent for a decade just thought, hey, let's do that. She did like kooky as fuck, right, but she's still worshiping but still relevant, still relevant.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable time goes by so generally up in the air, so slowly I mean, yeah, women, that's so true, whereas you look at like crosby, stills and nash and they're like rocking the same neck beards for 52 years so she was saying in her because you know how she started out as country she was saying how, like male counterparts in that industry, you could have like the same.
Speaker 1:You can even have the same beat of songs and people will just love you and you can go on for decades after decades doing the same shit and maybe releasing a few new songs here and there. Yeah, she was like it's so hard for a woman you have to keep rebranding yourself before you are no longer relevant. They'll find the next youngest girl because females obviously men view us differently. If you're not, hot and young.
Speaker 2:You're yeah, you could do the same shit for 50 years as a man. And they're like he's aged, Like he knows, he's rugged. He's aged, he's experienced, he knows the industry. If a man does that, they're like, oh, this old witch Like the same shit. Also, like every time she sings about any boy, they're like she's a whore. I'm sorry, is Ed Sheer based off of love songs? Right, okay, is he a whore?
Speaker 1:no, maybe, maybe, maybe back in the day, back in the day, back in the day, because I was married with kids. You know I'm not negative also. Yeah wait, why do we hate whores? I'm a whore, you a whore, it's the oldest profession, it's the oldest profession, go, it is.
Speaker 2:It is the only uh, you know porn and prostitution. The only industry is sex work where men still outperform women I mean, oh my god, I said that wrong I said that backwards. Women, I'm sorry, I'm so drunk, we're blaming you on the rocks. Women, sorry. Women outperform men. That is the only consistent industry is sex work. Women get paid way more than men, as we should, we should, we have more. I'm sorry, but women's bodies come on what do you find?
Speaker 1:a saggy ball sack or a nice set of tits.
Speaker 2:Come on with women, you get double the fun. There's a top and a bottom with men there's just the bottom correct?
Speaker 1:so I think we're just pretty creatures in my opinion same, I'm not even gay are you sure you're blushing anyway? Um, I do feel like the title of this podcast should be like whores, whores, whores more whores? No, shouldn't we? What do you think we should name this podcast everybody?
Speaker 2:well, I think about that all the time because you know, whenever you're like I okay, I love living with women, right? Isn't that the best time? When you like your roommates, you get ready together, you have hungover days the next okay. Girlhood and I always was like, if I could be gay, I fucking would. If it was a choice, I would choose it. Come on, I want to live with women and have fun. I just can't.
Speaker 1:We also were blessed with marrying men that are not schlubs um they. So I feel like we don't feel so strongly anymore because we, we married people that they, they do their fair share of parenting. They don't. Just. What is it called babysitting? Yeah, yeah now if I married a man that babysat in quotes, air quotes I would force myself, I would be. I'd be a lesbian, because if you're not going to do half of the work or even more when I don't feel good, I don't want you.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying, though, that, like I prefer, like my best friend Marwa, and I shout out to Marwa she has no Wi-Fi, she's in Libya right now, but, like we would always, would live so happily.
Speaker 1:however, that in mind, the female form is significantly more beautiful than the male, I agree well, I mean, oh my god greek sculpture, sculptures, sculptures venus we're slurring our words because hornitos is kicking guys.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I'm the rocks is the best bang for your buck. This recession.
Speaker 1:We're just like I'm not driving home. I have a guest bed, by the way. Oh fuck, no Safety first, Stay as long as you need Seriously Endless water, endless carbs, a bed if you choose not to, oh yeah, she's got a house Also.
Speaker 2:Evelyn loves sleeping in Jack's room, so if you need the baby's room for the crib, so how crazy is that?
Speaker 1:like, I'm just, we're straight and we're just, the female form is much better. That's why women are paid more. Yeah, good thing finally in some profession whores, whores, whores, whores, whores yeah, listen, we should empower, we should empower ourselves.
Speaker 2:Don't let them take that word from us wait, that actually I know, that actually bothers me, that like we're so offended, like because it is one of those words where someone calls you that, almost like if you deny a guy, and they're like you bitch, you whore, and you're like oh fuck, but they love to hurt, why am I?
Speaker 1:But I feel like some men are, not that they're smart, but they are smart in a sense where they know to hurt you. So they don't just call you a whore, they say fat whore because they know self-esteem they're like you, I have a great anecdote about that Good as she's eating.
Speaker 2:It reminded me only because I was recently at a wedding where this girl. I went to Fordham with Julia. She's so funny. Have I met her? You maybe she was a cheerleader.
Speaker 1:She's older than you, was she at?
Speaker 2:your wedding? No, continue. She's two years older than me. Okay, she's fucking hilarious. She's a mom now.
Speaker 2:Anyway, she has this great story. I think she was a senior at the time, so I must've been a sophomore at Fordham and we're out at a bar and I don't know she, she's like just a fucking baller and she, I don't know if she cut a line or I don't know exactly what happened. She punched somebody. I can't remember the details of the story, but she got mad at one of these like baseball players at Fordham and, uh, he called her fat.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, this guy called her fat and she, she just turned around and said fat, which, by the way, I would say julia, she, the thing is, she's fit as fuck like, her body looks amazing, but she's not like petite, she's just naturally not petite, but like ripped, always had amazing muscles like quads for days, bicep, like rip, definitely not fat, but just like isn't naturally petite frame, that's right. And she was like, she turned around, calm and cool as anything. It was like fat. You call me fat, I'm not fat. I'll show you my nudes. And we quoted that for years. Like he was stunned, stunned into silence, just like my son earlier. You know what he's. He literally was like. This kid did not have an answer. He plays for the Red Sox now.
Speaker 1:He did not have an answer. Give me a name, I'll fight him. He's a.
Speaker 2:Red Sox pitcher Did not have an answer. He's easy to find, just Fordham Red Sox pitcher. Actually wait, no, he's traded to the Yankees. Anyway, it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant called her fat and she just calm, as anything goes. I'll show you my fucking nudes. I'm not fat and I was like, wow the ball, like that's some fucking female empowerment. I'm proud of her I know you, julie julia, julia, good for you, julia.
Speaker 2:We told that story for years. We were always like I'll show you my fucking nudes but also like okay, you're still not getting this. I know right, I can't remember why they argued it was such a stupid thing at a college bar way back in 2014 or something, who knows?
Speaker 1:2013, men are not all men. Obviously we know great men in our life, not just the people we married. But I feel like he has great cousins, you have great brother-in-laws and cousins, etc. Whatever like we are, well, thank god we were raised by a smart woman, but, um, but some men are just fucking disgusting and gross that actually is a perfect segue.
Speaker 2:Remember how everyone says like man or gorilla yeah and did you hear about this? 100 men want to fight a gorilla and to see who wins. Wait, elon musk is one of them.
Speaker 1:You don't realize a gorilla will kill you, right? They're huge and their strength is unmatchable I don't.
Speaker 2:You don't even have to be 100 men versus a gorilla. Once a gorilla touches one of you, you're all gonna see that and back away in fear, correct?
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, but if anyone I knew said I want to fight a gorilla, I'd say I'm gonna plan your funeral. What casket would you like? What cemetery?
Speaker 2:it's fully dead. You, elon musk, is one of the 100. He signed up. I'm not joking, I'm, he really did this.
Speaker 1:Listen, I know you're a father, so I don't will wish ill no, I know you have like 13 boys to me, but that's a dumb decision.
Speaker 1:Please rethink um, because they are, they're pretty strong, yeah. So anyway, I know we've been off topic, but hornitos, right. So let us talk about our polls that we've been promising. The first poll was what is a male equivalent of karen, and we had a lot of people write in um, and what we did, what did stand out to us is the two ladies I hope it's okay to shout you out is our aunt, erin, erin henneke, my dad's sister, and annabelle, who was marrying my brother, uh, my sister-in-law to be in August. They both said Brad and Chad, and we thought it was funny and it stood out to us because we also had said that in our last session. Like, wouldn't those be good names, right? So I mean, you guys were right on the money. We agree, it's definitely Brad or Chad. We can make them interchangeable. That's fine. Whatever you know leaves your lips at the time of anger. We're okay with that, uh. So congrats to you two.
Speaker 1:I wish I'd say you have prizes, but you could just come have a drink, have a hornitos, drink with us. Hornitos, yes, hornitos. Well, we'll owe you an on the rocks drink, yes. Also, we all see both of you at your wedding, annabelle. So let's do it then. Woo, all right. Anyway, we're clearly buzzed while we talk Um. The next one was do people prefer to eat out, uh, alone or with others? A hundred percent, said others, thank God, thank God. I was a little concerned for the generation coming up, but I'm proud that you proved me wrong.
Speaker 2:I don't. If out of necessity, I'll eat out by myself, like I'm not shy at all, so like if I'm like out traveling, I'm not gonna be like, oh, I can't eat out because I'm alone, but do I prefer to be with people? Obviously the whole point of going out is you get to dress up, you need to put a makeup on, you try a new place, you you order two different mains so that you could share and try to.
Speaker 1:you know what I mean. Yeah, no, I agree, I agree, I'm happy. I'm happy, probably a little biased, though, because I do feel like our followers probably are not Gen Alpha, gen Z as much as they're older, so maybe predicted that it would be that. Hi, theo, I'm so glad you joined us in the ending. By the way, he is rocking a fabulous shirt. It says groovy. It's got a disco ball, a little cute mushroom and a guitar. Tara Henneke, I knew it. You, aunt Tara, shout out to Tara Heneke, married to Uncle Brian. Love you guys. Tara Roberts Heneke, tara Roberts, heneke. There we go. Good thing we didn't mess that up like we messed up everything else, but otherwise we're going to end today. We're so glad that you're listening. Also, bridget, right, who was it that gave us a shout out while running that you just saw recently? Tracy Renkel.
Speaker 2:Thank you that gave us a shout out while running that you just saw recently. Tracy rankle. Thank you, tracy rankle. Tracy said on her walks she loves listening to our podcast.
Speaker 1:This is a bit of a boozy one, which is what we always intended I hope after, tracy, I hope after your run, you have a boozy time walk. She said you've walked a walk. Thank you for walking and listening to us. We appreciate you. Thank you, tracy, um, and we will talk to you next time, but until then, please like, subscribe, listen, and maybe we need to host like an event where it's like a boozy event with, like, obviously, food and we just like let our listeners.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, wait. That would be so fun, but this is basically our friends and family though, but that's the point.
Speaker 1:Business right off, business right off. Anyway, we'll get what we'd have to do before berget leaves. If not, we'll catch you in August. All I can think of is like never mind anyway. Uh, we'll talk after the podcast. As always, though, we love you guys. Thank you for listening and thank you for always recommending us. Um, take care bye.