You might think a commencement speech is just another run-of-the-mill event, but not when controversial comments about gender roles by NFL player Harrison Butker take center stage. We dissect the outdated views presented at Benedictine College's graduation, challenging the notion that women's ultimate goal should be marriage and motherhood at the expense of their professional aspirations. We're here to put the spotlight on respecting women's diverse paths to fulfillment and the critical need for self-reliance. So, if you've ever found yourself frustrated with gendered expectations, you're in the right place.
Let's face it, the traditional 'husband can't boil water' trope is as stale as last week's bread. In our episode, we tackle the myth of gendered incompetence and the silent labor of 'fixing' a partner's mistakes. We advocate for teaching our sons just as much about managing a household as we do our daughters, aiming for a future where domestic responsibilities don't fall on one person's shoulders. Imagine a world where 'husband training' isn't a thing because we've all learned to handle life's basics, regardless of gender. Stick with us, and let's explore these changing dynamics together.
We also highlight the valuable evolution of resources that help us navigate our children's emotional landscapes. Peer into the future with us as we tease the next season of our podcast, where we'll share more candid conversations on parenthood, life's unexpected turns, and yes, maybe even enjoy a margarita or two in our new home. Join the discussion where personal choice and understanding children's emotions are celebrated, and where society's one-size-fits-all narrative is left behind.
Disclaimer: This podcast represents the opinions of Dr. Bridget Melton, MD and licensed therapist Marissa Volinsky, MS, LPC, NCC. The contents of our podcast and website should not be taken as medical advice. The contents of our podcast and website are for general informational purposes only, and are not intended to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition or disease or substitute for medical advice. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before starting or discontinuing treatment.
If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis, please reach out immediately to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255 or text HOME to the Crisis Text Line at 741741. These services are free and confidential.
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You might think a commencement speech is just another run-of-the-mill event, but not when controversial comments about gender roles by NFL player Harrison Butker take center stage. We dissect the outdated views presented at Benedictine College's graduation, challenging the notion that women's ultimate goal should be marriage and motherhood at the expense of their professional aspirations. We're here to put the spotlight on respecting women's diverse paths to fulfillment and the critical need for self-reliance. So, if you've ever found yourself frustrated with gendered expectations, you're in the right place.
Let's face it, the traditional 'husband can't boil water' trope is as stale as last week's bread. In our episode, we tackle the myth of gendered incompetence and the silent labor of 'fixing' a partner's mistakes. We advocate for teaching our sons just as much about managing a household as we do our daughters, aiming for a future where domestic responsibilities don't fall on one person's shoulders. Imagine a world where 'husband training' isn't a thing because we've all learned to handle life's basics, regardless of gender. Stick with us, and let's explore these changing dynamics together.
We also highlight the valuable evolution of resources that help us navigate our children's emotional landscapes. Peer into the future with us as we tease the next season of our podcast, where we'll share more candid conversations on parenthood, life's unexpected turns, and yes, maybe even enjoy a margarita or two in our new home. Join the discussion where personal choice and understanding children's emotions are celebrated, and where society's one-size-fits-all narrative is left behind.
Disclaimer: This podcast represents the opinions of Dr. Bridget Melton, MD and licensed therapist Marissa Volinsky, MS, LPC, NCC. The contents of our podcast and website should not be taken as medical advice. The contents of our podcast and website are for general informational purposes only, and are not intended to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition or disease or substitute for medical advice. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before starting or discontinuing treatment.
If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis, please reach out immediately to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255 or text HOME to the Crisis Text Line at 741741. These services are free and confidential.
https://psychoticpypodcast.com/
https://www.instagram.com/psychoticpypodcast
https://www.facebook.com/psychoticpypodcast
Hello everybody and welcome to episode 9 of our podcast. You are back here with Marissa and Bridget, so we're really excited to be with you guys today because we're talking about a very emotive topic gender stereotypes. So we have been inspired by Harrison Butker's comments at Benedictine College's commencement and I'm sure everyone has heard about it, whether it was in the news, TikTok, Instagram, whatever. I'm sure you've heard about it and we think a lot of people out there probably have a lot to say about his ludicrous and quite divisive words. If I'm being honest, I think the goal of that speech may have actually been to divide instead of congratulate and bring people together and unify them. So we are going to just talk about it. So let's first address what happened. So Harrison Butker, who's a football player for the NFL, plays for the Kansas City Chiefs.
Speaker 2:He delivered the commencement speech at a private Christian college in Kansas. During his speech, he spoke directly to the women in the crowd and asked quote how many of you are sitting here now about to cross the stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world. End quote. So let's just talk about that First of all. You're a man, so let's not. How about? You? Don't venture to guess what women are thinking, Because you don't know. Like you, just straight up. You don't, you know, you're not a woman. You don't know women are thinking because you don't know, You're not a woman, you don't know. But mentioning marriage and children is just not appropriate during college graduation. After four years of hard work and sacrifice, you're finally celebrating earning this degree. You're here with your friends and family. Today is about your academic and your professional accomplishments, all the sacrifices you've made. But then some man completely minimizes these hopes and dreams just to say that your greatest accomplishment will come from marriage.
Speaker 2:And I believe a happy marriage is definitely something to be celebrated, but not on graduation day. It's just not the appropriate time. It's almost like when you see these really cringy guys like propose to their girlfriend at college graduation like I'm sorry, this is their day, this is their moment. You can propose on another day. I don't know if that's like an unpopular opinion or popular, I don't know. I talk about this with my friends all the time, Like there is a time and a place to make the day about your relationship and the day that she's getting her college degree is definitely not fucking it. Like, it's just not. Yeah, it's just like save it for another day.
Speaker 2:So even further, I would say that marriage is not inherently an accomplishment on its own. So I'm sorry, but like, any idiot can technically get married. That's not a great feat, but like a beautiful, happy marriage, Absolutely. That's why we celebrate anniversaries. That's why what is it Like? 75 years is the diamond anniversary? Like that's amazing If you have 75 happy years with somebody, like that's, my brain can't even like fathom. But like just to get married, that's not an accomplishment. Literally, anyone can go to the courthouse, sign a piece of paper and be like we're married, Like anyway, so let's continue. So then he mentioned his wife Isabel, and said quote, her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother end quote. And that he was able to be the man who he is, you know, because his wife embraced one of the most important titles of all being a homemaker.
Speaker 1:So that's basically the like, the main points, but yeah, so let's just like dive in, let's talk about it, Absolutely yeah, and I would love to know any comments after this, guys what you think yeah, no, so for me, right, like I agree with everything you're saying, bridget, and listen, if you and your husband, partner, spouse, whatever, have decided that you want to be a homemaker, and it's what you want and it also benefits your family, that's wonderful. But that's not what this speech sounded like. There was many times where he kept referring to this whole lean into your vocation theme and it just seemed a little bit pushy to me, especially, like Bridget said, at a graduation commencement. It's just not appropriate. Not the time, not the place. Some of those women graduating might go on to be doctors, physicists, you name it, and what you're saying is no, don't do that, you don't need to do it. You God wants you to lean into being a homemaker. I feel like that's a slap in the face.
Speaker 2:Completely agree. Also, a lot of people do go to these colleges because they get like Catholic scholarships for it, but they're not actually practicing Catholics. So I get it like he obviously, obviously, is a Christian, but like, do not push your Christian beliefs on a group of women who may not they may not believe in God at all. So it's like you're telling me that I have to lean into a vocation that your God apparently is pushing on me. I just think that's so inappropriate.
Speaker 1:Oh, a hundred percent Very inappropriate And% Very inappropriate. And he discussed birth control and how he disagreed with it and says that it's not good in God's eyes. Also, why are we pushing that narrative during 2024? Birth control is extremely important. Also, stop assuming that always birth control is for preventing birth. I was put on it early for my bad acne and it helped me significantly, so sometimes people need it for other reasons.
Speaker 2:Really, and I just read, like three days ago, birth control use, like the combined contraception, is up in the US because of all these states cracking down on abortion. So it's like you're telling me, okay, I can't get an abortion, fine, you know not, fine, but we'll. But we'll leave that topic for now. So it's like, well, obviously I'm going to prevent conception then. So now you're saying I also can't use contraceptives, like you're kind of sticking me between a rock and a hard place then.
Speaker 1:Well, that's because he wants us to lean into our vocation. He wants us to just be a wife and a mother.
Speaker 2:Which is like you're basically like fulfilling a childhood dream You're getting paid to play your favorite sport, Like that's like a kid's dream job. So you could do that. You could travel the world, make millions of dollars, be in the spotlight but the woman behind you stays there. I'm just like it's a bit like mind boggling.
Speaker 1:Well, also he's failing to realize, right? So Isabel can do this because she's married to a wealthy man, because of what he does, right? So I'm sure being a homemaker is a bit easier versus like your low or middle income families, because you know she could have groceries delivered, she could have a nanny, she could have this. You know bigger village that can help her. That makes it more enjoyable. Now let's talk about leaning into your vocation. If you're middle or lower class, right, not making enough money, there's stress on the marriage, you can't afford a nanny, you have to go get your groceries. With three whiny kids, I mean, there's just more problems when you don't have excess money. So this homemaker, this whole, like this dream, like, oh, it, just lean into it, it money. So this homemaker, this whole, like this dream, like, oh, it, just lean into it, it'll be great, it's not great for everybody, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Yes, 100%. People talk about this all the time now. So women of color especially are completely left out of this conversation. So there, there is no more American dream where there's one income, whether it's the man or the woman like, you just cannot afford it unless the one earner in the family is an extremely high earner. Otherwise your children are not getting appropriate care and you know supplies Like it's just not possible. You know the American dream is not feasible on one income anymore. So you're completely leaving out people of color from this conversation, especially, and single moms like what are they supposed to do? Well, oh, I stay at home. Who makes the money? Oh, nobody. But God wants me to stay at home.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, with the single mother topic. So they, they listen to you, right, harrison? They lean into their vocation, okay, and then the man leaves them for a mistress and they get nothing, nothing. How is that fair to the wife and the kids who now have to move in with their grandparents, if those grandparents can even help and are still alive? You're practically leaving her desolate. How?
Speaker 2:is that fair? Agree? Yes, this is exactly what happened in the 50s and 60s. It was like if your man left you, you didn't have a bank account in your name, the house was definitely not in your name and you weren't allowed to have a credit card in your name until you know Ruth Bader Ginsburg changed that. So you were left with completely cut off, without any resources, and you had no choice but to lean on family, which, at the time, you know, people got married younger, so their parents were younger, so maybe you have that blessing, but nowadays people are much older getting married and having children, so the likelihood that your parents are still healthy and working and able to help is really just just, it's slim, you know right, right.
Speaker 1:I've had a client in in my past. She, she leaned into the vocation, right, that was always what she wanted to do. It was very fulfilling for her. She could never see herself really having a career and she was divorced and she came to therapy because she was like, what do I do? I gave up everything for him so he could build his career. I was there for him, emotionally, physically. She even homeschooled the kids, everything. She was like top-notch homeschool, homemaker, everything and was left with nothing. He cheated, of course, left her. And it's like you're asking us to lean into our vocation and give up everything, practically give up ourselves, because when you're a mother, let's face it, kids come first. Your identity is like non-existent until they're older and you want us to do that and you're going to just leave us. Like, excuse me me, what?
Speaker 2:and then it's like no surprise, because men are always like, oh, I love a woman with confidence who, like, has a successful career and all. It's like, yeah, but the woman you have at home is raising your children, because that's what you told her to do. So it's kind of like, what, what dream woman do you want the, the homemaker who makes you fresh food and does all your laundry and looks after your children, or do you want the vision of a perfect woman who has it all? Sexy career, you know, is completely independent, like you have to choose, because, guess what, you can't have both. These are completely, like you know, independent personas you're describing.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what I ended up having with this client is he? They started arguing because he said that she was a freeloader. Freeloader, she went into her vocation.
Speaker 2:Oh that, okay, that leads me into my next point. So I just want to clarify that I'm not at all disparaging women who choose to stay at home and raise children. If that's your personal choice, that's, that's your life, fine, go ahead. Like I think it's a thankless job and it deserves a lot more respect than it gets, which is why I don't think I could ever do it. Um, it is literally 24, seven around the clock, work unpaid, like that. I just don't think I have the stamina to do it. But if you think it's for you, then go for it. But all we're saying is a college commencement is not the right time or place to bring this up, because it completely diminishes every woman's accomplishment that day and it sends the message that they will not be fulfilled until they marry and raise children. What about the women who don't plan to marry ever or want to be married but childless?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, it's not for everybody. There are plenty of women that want to be married but childless. Absolutely it's not for everybody. There are plenty of women that want to just travel the world, be the top person in their career, and they're fulfilled Like this makes them super happy. They're not kid people at all, you know.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Well, what about lesbian couples? What about women who are asexual? Like this just completely eliminates people and says, no, you have to be this heteronormative archetype. You know? What about women who can't have children? So you're saying you'll never be happy? Great, that's what I needed to hear.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean what about, um, a gay couple? Uh, two men who gets to lean into their vocation? I'm just wondering, harrison, which one you know?
Speaker 2:what truly gay male couples like male male are so lucky? You get dual male income.
Speaker 1:That is the secret to life if you if you want a hack, oh my god, let me tell you.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so it's just the imagery of the happy wifey at home dedicating her life to another person is completely backwards and inappropriate to place on somebody else's shoulders, especially the day of their own college graduation. It says thanks, mom and dad, for paying for a four-year degree, or maybe you took out loans so you busted your hump doing loans every year. But it actually means nothing, because my true calling is to look after some dusty ass man who cannot cook or clean for himself. But but thanks, mom and dad, for all the sacrifices you've made.
Speaker 1:Dusty ass man. I love that. Oh my God, it's true though it really is. As a mother, as a mother for Evelyn, I want nothing.
Speaker 2:If she ends up being a homemaker, that's fine. No, no judgment, but for her I want her to get. This is just like a Henneke family rule. We weren't allowed to get married until our advanced degrees were done, so not just our undergraduate degrees. I had to be fully graduated from medical school and Marissa had to have her master's and working as well. That was like the rule in our house. Like you can't get married until your advanced degrees completed, and I think that's smart, yeah.
Speaker 1:So when I was younger and I really was definitely unaware of the world and what I wanted to do, I did. I was a little angry with her because I felt like that was just her way of controlling my life. But looking back now, especially as a mother, I am so grateful, and I will absolutely be doing the same with Evelyn, because there is no way I'm going to pour my heart and soul into my children to let someone marry them off and take advantage of them and leave them desolate no way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like, like you said, like if you want to be a homemaker, hundy pee, like some people are great mothers and like they're just really effing good at it, so go for it. But I think you do and I know this sounds really bad because you shouldn't have an exit plan in a marriage, but I think you should think what if he loses his job? What if he becomes disabled and is unable to work? We're not saying plan for divorce, we're saying plan for a world where maybe your husband cannot provide for you. You have to then step up and be the breadwinner and you need something to fall back on. It doesn't have to be a degree, but a skill. You have to know that you can make money doing something.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent. It is so important, especially with how expensive things are now. It's crazy out there If you don't have a backup plan and you have no income and have no ability to make income if you lose your spouse. That's scary because you have to think what's going to happen to you and the kids honestly.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Oh, my God, okay. So this brings me to the next point. So looking after children is a job, a tough job, and it's something that ultimately has to be done by somebody, whether that's mom, dad, grandparents, a nanny, daycare, et cetera, whatever fits the puzzle. That is your family.
Speaker 2:But looking after a grown man, a man maybe you're married to or maybe you cohabitate with, that's not a job, that is a choice. He is grown, he knows how to survive, he does not depend on another adult, so there's absolutely no need for him to rely on you to make him, you know, a better functioning adult. And please don't get it twisted Like I'm not talking about acts of service. You know the little small signs of love and gratitude. We all do that for people we love and that's absolutely fine.
Speaker 2:So you know, like for us in in my marriage, like whoever wakes up earlier on a Saturday morning, like you get the coffee going, maybe you make pancakes, you bring it to your partner in bed, you know, whatever your nice ritual is, that is beautiful and should not be criticized. I'm talking about a grown man who relies on you to do his laundry, his cleaning, his cooking, food shopping, home shopping, event scheduling, life admin, et cetera, solely because he's the one who makes the money. No, sorry, hire a personal assistant, then boo-boo. Let me tell you these women did not bust their humps to earn a degree, only to be told that their greatest vocation and true calling is to be somebody's unpaid personal assistant. No, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll just say that Harrison would hate me and have some awful words to say about me, because in my marriage we are a team, and sometimes even more. John picks up more, and I don't ask him to, I don't expect him to, he just does. He enjoys doing it, he enjoys playing with the kids. He does a lot of the woman's chores, like he cooks like Bridget, you know I suck at cooking Like it's embarrassing for someone who is a daughter of an Italian woman. It's, it's embarrassing so, but he does the cooking all of it and I feel like if Harrison came into my household he'd be like disgraced.
Speaker 2:You know what it's like. You're both working. You both very often work from home, so it's kind of just like okay, yeah, no-transcript, you have the, you have the time, you have the brain power to now go what? What the heck are we going to eat for dinner? And I think that's just fair.
Speaker 1:It is fair. You're right, team is important, which brings me to my next topic of in his speech, with the lean into the vocation theme he was heavily implying and mentioned, I think, in the middle. I think, um, because we're leaning in as homemakers, the men should be the head of the household, right, which I feel like that goes against the team narrative that is in my marriage, because why is one the head like? I understand if you want to be a protector, that's fine, but like head of the household also to me sounds like you're telling me what to do, you're managing my finances, you have the last say, and that is not. That's not okay in my eyes and I would not marry someone like that personally.
Speaker 1:And and it's he also was talking about how, right now, there's a movement of women telling each other like you know, we don't need men, but we don't. What he doesn't realize is we mean bad ones, not good ones, but you know he'll take whatever, whatever he wants to hear, and twist it and he's saying because we're saying we don't need them, there's this big movement, blah, blah, blah. That that's why there's more violence in our kids today and in our homes and on the streets. There's more violence in our kids today and in our homes and on the streets. The only thing I have to say to you, harrison, is who starts wars? Who has been violent for God knows thousands of years? Right Men, not women, men. So what you're saying does not make sense, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I hate that old narrative where it's like if you had a strong man in the house, everything would be solved. How many horrible marriages in the 50s, 60s, 70s, where women stayed at home, dad was the authoritative, you know, disciplinarian, who worked, came home and just did the disciplining. How many effed up households would I mean really fucked up kids, came from that situation? It's not. It's just not the the like I don't even know the standard. It's not right right right.
Speaker 1:Well, also, um, my husband, raised by a single mom and he's the youngest of two boys, he's fabulous, fabulous, provider, husband, everything, father, you name it just a friend, a good person in general, um, and I and according to harrison, though he shouldn't be, he didn't have a father figure, but he turned out amazing. His mother was a strong woman, much like our mother bridget, and she raised him right. I give her so much credit and I'm so grateful, obviously, because now he's an amazing father and partner I just think, like how many people do we know that have, I'm gonna say, daddy issues?
Speaker 2:but I really don't mean it in that way, but like, if you're going to pick a fight with one parent, even if you come from a like quote unquote normal family, like your dad was an overtly abusive or anything like that, but how many people actually like have the biggest beef with their dad over their mom? Like their mom is their best friend, their confidant, like, I would say, most of the people I know, like if they're gonna pick a beef with one parent, it's their father. So it's like harrison, give us your advice. Man, like what? What are the dads doing wrong? I'd love to hear it, because sounds like a lot of them are fucking up no, I agree, um, but I also.
Speaker 1:I know we were discussing this before, bridget, but for anyone who is on TikTok, um, there's that whole trend right now versus who would a woman want to be alone with in the woods. Would you pick a man or the bear? And everyone is choosing the bear, which is sending like these kind of red flag type men into like frenzies and like attacking these women over the internet about their choice. But it's like you're making our point.
Speaker 2:You're the reason why we would choose the bear over you. Yes, like yeah, what I just oh, my god, uh. But no, we're the emotional creatures, marissa, don't worry, we're the ones who can't control our emotions. But tiktok videos are upsetting these fragile men, but they're rational, trust me. Yeah listen.
Speaker 1:All I'm saying is, because of their little fragile egos, we go to war all the time. They have a little tantrum with a different, you know person from a different country, and that's it. It's over war. Like where a woman would be like let's sit down and talk about this. Like let's, let's hash this out, girl, because what's going on?
Speaker 2:it's so absurd. I just I think what bothers me the most about these like gender stereotypes is the fact that the woman not only should be a slave, because it's unpaid labor, but should also like take like my life, should take the back seat. Why, what about me? Inherently says I'm a doormat and I'm here to serve you, because there is really no religion. When it's interpreted literally, that says that and like any anyone who says that, like the bible, the quran, whatever, anyone who says that, oh, you know, women are supposed to take a back seat. That's their own interpretation of the word, correct? You know what so like, however you interpret it to suit your needs man like, whatever, but don't tell me you know that that's what Jesus said or Muhammad said, because you're lying Right.
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, if we're going to talk about, you know, him quoting the Bible and Jesus and God leaning into your vocation Okay, if that's true. And Jesus and God leaning into your vocation? Okay, if that's true. Jesus leaned into his vocation. He wasn't a father. He chose to spread the good news and the word and gain a following. That was what his purpose was, which goes against what Harrison is saying. He should be a father protector provider. But what Harrison is failing to realize is you should be able to lean into whatever your vocation means to you, which is what you were saying. Bridget it. It doesn't have to mean homemaker, even though harrison disagrees. It could mean you're an astronaut, you're a teacher, you're whatever you want.
Speaker 2:Lean into that, what makes you happy yeah, oh god, I like just the whole speech just was like wrong place, wrong time, like that's. I think that's what really bothers me.
Speaker 1:The only other thing I would say is he quoted he was talking about how our leaders in the Catholic faith today he's not a fan of how they immerse themselves into the community. And he thinks that you know you should be a leader you're, you're leading the sheep, you should not be with the sheep. And he thinks that you know you should be a leader you're, you're leading the sheep, you should not be with the sheep. And I disagree Because in our own lives we've had priests that were very close with our family and I was so grateful for that, and I think you should be immersing yourself in the culture in the community. People should get to know you on a personal level. And the fact that he was against that, I don't know. Just put a and cut people off from the church.
Speaker 2:If you want to gain a following and build a nice community with lovely people who support each other, you need to have that community vibe and the only way to do that is to put yourself just even with all your parishioners. I completely agree with you.
Speaker 1:Well, also again, he keeps quoting the Bible. But Jesus definitely walked around with the community, that he kept traveling to different villages. I mean, jesus didn't even do that, he definitely immersed himself into the community.
Speaker 2:He hung out with lepers Like yeah, he was so fully integrated into the community I can't even imagine Like he was never separate above better than.
Speaker 1:So it's just a complete misinterpretation of Christianity.
Speaker 1:And this is, I feel like, why I really wanted to make this one of our topics, and I'm sure you were passionate about it too. But because I am Catholic, right Like did the whole thing, even got married in the church, and I'm just so sick of these people giving it a bad name, because this is why we are losing religion in in today's world and again, I know I'm generalizing everyone has their own religion or none. If you're atheist, that's totally fine. I love everything, um, but like for the people that do and have left, like I feel sorry for them because they're they're hearing these things and it's they're just not accurate. Like that is not what jesus is preaching. Sorry, harrison, like you're misinterpreting, and that's fine if you want to interpret it that way, but don't pour it on to everybody else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly yeah, keep, like I always say this your religion dictates how you act. It does not dictate how I act. So if that's how you interpret it, keep that between you and your family and your friends, whatever like, but do not push that on other people.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent, like I mean, the only thing that you should be pushing is is what he was teaching Love everybody. Just don't be judgmental. Very open, loving, warm, just go about your life. A good person Like that's. The only thing you really should be spreading is kindness. Just spread kindness, people. It's not that hard, the golden rule. It just cracks me up when people just take things so far and I'm like I'm sorry. Did Jesus come down himself and tell you this? Because this interpretation is off.
Speaker 2:I know and I agree. Unless someone told you from the horse's mouth, then you have no business. You're not a religious leader and I don't want to hear your interpretation.
Speaker 1:To be completely honest, I know and again, I know this is probably me just being salty and I'm going to regret this, but, um, I mean, he's putting down like women who do amazing things, like you know our research and cancer cures and everything, and it's like you kick a ball around like sit down, please sit down. Oh, my god, I know, get out of here. Like I'm sorry, but like if you have to give up one career for the greater good, I would choose the, the doctor that's researching the cure for cancer, over football. Sorry, how about you? Stay home, okay?
Speaker 2:harrison, I know exactly. You have fun for a living like also.
Speaker 1:I should have researched this more. So this might be. It's accurate. It's just I don't know her name or anything or where she works, but I want to. I want to know. I wish her mom would do an interview, because isn't she like a physicist, like she was not a homemaker? She was, yes, yes, I swear to god bridget, if you google it right now, she's. She was not a homemaker, she's a physicist, and I would just like to know how she feels and like. Also, does his views come from? Like his resentment of his mother? Like as a therapist I'm sorry, I'm just diving deep like do you resent the fact that she didn't stay home and she was so independent and a boss, ass bitch?
Speaker 2:oh my god, I'm gonna look it up so we're looking it up now.
Speaker 1:People stay with us live.
Speaker 2:Oh my god mom of chief kick kicker, harrison Butker, is renowned physicist. Yes, told you he worked in the department of radiation oncology since 1988 at Emory Emory university.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's awesome. She's awesome, like, how did this man come from this woman, unless he has resentment? I'm sorry, whoa yeah.
Speaker 2:His mom is awesome. I'm a bit mind blown by that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so just so you know everyone, his mom is an amazing woman, as you've just seen.
Speaker 2:Bridget read the headline in real life, real time, and I just I'm so shocked that his views are so opposite of hers well, I guess I'm not defending him, but I guess in his own marriage the balance that he has struck with his wife, just it seems to be like in its heyday. You know, it seems very golden ratio for them right now, because he is earning so much money, like we said earlier, so they can have a one income family and everything's very easy breezy and life is easy with money. So maybe it's just that for him and his wife isabel like it's just that right balance. So now he's like oh, it's all clicking now, like this is how it should be. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Maybe yeah, but okay, what happens if he gets injured? Career over, what happens? What happens? Does she not lean into her vocation anymore? What happens to her? I'm just wondering, isabel blink, if you're okay, oh my god.
Speaker 2:So let's just like break down gender stereotypes. Gender stereotypes, for me, is something that like really riles me up. So I'm sorry if I get heated, but basically I know we all know this. But just to recap, stereotypes are when we typify people into simplistic groups and assume they possess specific characteristics in line with said group. So, for example, if you said, like women don't like sports, like obviously that's just wholly untrue, but for many decades it was an assumed truth of the female gender and you know you could watch any sitcom from like you know, probably up until 2010. And it's like, oh yeah, women don't like sports, ha ha ha. Always got like a laugh. And it's like we know it's not true, but anyway that's a stereotype. We know it's not true, but anyway that's a stereotype. So, according to Kleona O'Connor in 2015, quote social psychological research confirms that people are more likely to agree with gender stereotypes and behave in discriminatory ways after encountering biological accounts of gender differences. End quote.
Speaker 2:So, using this thought process, we can see why people can take anecdotal evidence from their own lives and expand it to be scientific fact, which, as we know, is like a mistake. So, for example, if you grew up in a home with a very loving, attentive stay-at-home mom, you may grow up to assume that women are naturally more adept at parenting and homemaking because you you witnessed it firsthand in your own home. So you might go oh my God, women are just like, naturally better parents, whereas if you grew up with an executive mom who delegated child rearing, you assume men and women are equally adept at parenting as well as thriving professionally. That makes sense Again. Like we, marissa and I, grew up in a household, it was like very much like our mom ran the finances, ran the household, ran the business, like she did kind of everything. So we grew up like I genuinely I'm not going to speak for Marissa I truly grew up like not realizing any gender differences until I got to middle school and I all the typical, you know jokes like women make me a sandwich, and I was like wait, what?
Speaker 2:Like I just like my brain couldn't wrap my head around that because I was like no, no, no. Like in the Henneke household, like women run shit, like you know no, I agree, no, I agree.
Speaker 1:Even hearing those stereotypes for the first time, I'm like my mom would like throw that sandwich in my dad's face. Who are you kidding? What are you talking?
Speaker 2:about I was also.
Speaker 1:I was like Jerry doesn't cook for people we love you, mom, but we know you're the microwave queen yeah, like I was like I don't really get this joke.
Speaker 2:like what do you mean? Women in the kitchen? I'm like my grandma, but she's like an Italian old lady, so that's why she's always in the kitchen, like she likes cooking. You know, like I was just so confused, so it kind of makes sense, though it's like what you perceive as the norm. You know, if you had that like magical life where your mom was like just really, maybe she's like a really good baker and a really good cook and like was an amazing cleaner and you grew up in one of those homes, then you grow up and go oh well, women are obviously like better at it, even though that might not be true.
Speaker 1:yeah, that's true, I mean, I agree and I feel like they are definitely taught and, like you said, like what you grew up seeing is what you believe and what you perceive yeah, a lot like.
Speaker 2:What we find is that most things are actually learned behaviors. There's very little like biological difference between races, genders, etc. Most things are actually just like learned and that's how we perceive differences, which is very interesting. How many times have we seen a powerful woman ask the dreaded question how do you manage work and children? I hate that question. It honestly makes me fucking cringe. This sexist thought is so pervasive that even hillary clinton was asked this um, she was asked how would you manage being president and a grandmother not a mother grandmother at the same time when she was running for the 2016 presidential election, like as if she's I don't know like a full time carer for her grandkids. Like I was like what kind of question is that? Meanwhile, trump had like I I assume baron was like around 12 at the time his own son. He was never asked how he would manage parenting and being president. Of course, you know why they never do.
Speaker 1:They never do. It's yeah well for me in my own experience. So me and my husband, like I said, completely out of the norm, we love doing things that are great for our, our own self, uh, identities. Um, like I'll go on a girl's trip, he'll go on a boy's trip, and then we'll even do a trip with the kids or without the kids. But so the point is is, when I go on my girls trips, I hear all the time well, who's to watch the kids? My husband, how is he going to do that all by himself? I don't know. The same way I do it by myself. Karen, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, Marissa, I cannot even, you're not even, it's not even my marriage. I cannot tell you how many times I have literally like explained your marriage to people. When I'm like, oh, merce is like on a girl's trip, people are like but the kids? And I'm like, right, they have another parent called dad. And people are always like, oh, I could never, like, my husband could never be left to his own devices. And I'm like, okay, well, like John can cause, he's a fully functioning adult.
Speaker 1:Honestly if, if anything, the kids are worse off with me because, like I said, he's the cook. So, like this whole time mom has been hanging out with us, taking us to dinner or bringing us food because I don't work and honestly, obviously I would make it work if my mom were not in the picture. I'm not that helpless, but obviously she's my mom, she feels bad and she also wants to see the grandkids, but like to even say what are they going to do with john? I want to be like you mean with the better parent, the one that provides, feeds them, love, like what do you mean?
Speaker 2:they're going to be fine, I know, but people just cannot like imagine a world where a marriage is actually 50 50 and dads look after their own children. God forbid it's just it's.
Speaker 1:It makes me laugh every time because they're coming up to be really thinking with their own gender stereotype. They have in their head their narrative that like what are they going to do without you? Marissa and I was like you mean survive and be happy. Yeah, they're going to be fine, they're going to cry.
Speaker 2:People ask that all the time, but you know what it's like. Why do we assume that powerful women should shoulder the lion's share of parenting at all? Wouldn't the natural thought be that parenting duties would fall onto the next parent? Well, because in a heteronormative relationship that other parent is a man. I guess not. We can't even conceive that a child's own parent, their father, would raise them while mom runs. You know a country. Instead, we do mental gymnastics to figure out who in the world will be raising this child. If not mommy Like, how about daddy Like?
Speaker 1:oh my god, that is sorry that. Just this topic heats me up and I know people are coming from a good place and their own you know what they've known growing up. I get it, but for me, when people come at me like that, I'm like, please, you're embarrassing your own marriage. This tells me so much about your own marriage.
Speaker 2:Even worse is when you have, like husband and wives, like there's no more children responsibilities. The children are our age, they're grown, they're out of the house, whatever. But like if, if the husband's being left alone for the weekend, like the kids have plans you know, mom's going on a girl's trip, blah, blah, blah and they're like, oh my God, my husband's going to be lost for a weekend without us. And I'm like you mean, it's just him in his own house. He can't survive. Just an adult man with money and access to resources. Like money and access to resources. Like why does he need babysitting? Is he 85?
Speaker 1:also like before they got married or when they went to college and they were all doing their whole bro thing, like they were able to feed themselves and take care of themselves, then why can't they do it now?
Speaker 2:exactly. I think, oh, I think maybe I might be on to something, the older generation kind of boomers maybe older gen x, I'd say, but not much younger than that um, maybe they like crippled their husbands because they wanted to do everything to make themselves like useful and completely hobble their husbands. And now that you don't I mean now it's like you're 56 years old, you don't want to look after another adult, but now it's like, well, you've completely crippled him. He doesn't know what the fuck to do without you. So, guess what? It is your responsibility.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree with that and I've seen it in some uh, you know, marriages of friends and families, all that. So for sure, I mean in our own personal experience I would say that's accurate. Um, but yeah, sorry, that's not going to happen in this house. Boo boo, not not allowed.
Speaker 2:I would never want to cripple my husband for the sole reason that that makes me completely like indispensable, which means I can't leave. Why would you ever want to like not be able to go on vacation because you like, you can't trust your husband? To what feed?
Speaker 1:himself. Well, two things are going to happen. Number one God forbid something happens to you, happens to the kids. That's not fair, not setting your family up for success at all. And number two, uh, resentment, because I'm telling you personally, for me I would be resentful as hell, absolutely, even though I did it, I'd still be resentful. I'd be like come on, pick up your shit, do your fucking job oh my god, completely.
Speaker 2:And you know what I get it like. Everything is learning for some people. Like before I met Ted. I think he he obviously did laundry. He's not a fucking idiot, but like he did it slowly, like at his own pace, you know, because he was a single guy and right obviously now it's like double the laundry and like we both go to the gym and like so there's a lot of clothing, so I do laundry like pretty much every other day, like you know, every three days.
Speaker 2:I know I know I told him that, like you know, when we have a kid, we're gonna be doing laundry like twice a day, um, but like so if I leave, he'll just text me and be like, hey, it's definitely like this button right, and I'm like that's completely fine because that shows me that he is doing the laundry like I don't. I'm not going to be like, oh fuck you, like you don't even remember, like you know, that's fine. He's just saying like hey, I just want to make sure, like this is the right button, I don't want to ruin the whites and that's totally fine. I would never want to like what gatekeep, how our washing machine works, so that he is reliant.
Speaker 1:What's that old saying that I feel like is useful in this situation, where it's like if a man is hungry, don't just give him a fish. Teach him how to fish.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what you should be doing. Stop just giving him the fish ladies. Teach him how. Trust me, you'll be much happier when you have more free time for your own personal self, because your husband knows how to do things.
Speaker 2:I I know everyone has heard this advice before from like some woman, but like our mother and one of my best friends ever, marwa, her mother both had the same advice when we were, marwa and I, were in medical school and we were living together and they both said this like independently, different times, but I was like, oh're, in a relationship you need to let the man do, like do the job, and even if it's done poorly, you then go secretly fix it. Because if you cut them off right then and go, oh, you didn't do it right, then they're going to obviously be like, oh well, I don't do it right, so you do it, and then you're sick. You don't have a leg to stand on.
Speaker 1:No, I agree Absolutely. Plus it also like it's if they're, if that's really their best. I feel like it's kind of mean to not at least be like oh, thank you so much, thanks for trying.
Speaker 2:Like it just hurts their, their fragile egos that we were talking about, and then they don't want to do it anymore the best thing, though, that I have heard lately from you know, moms, our age and a little bit older is this whole like if you're raising a son, you call it husband training. So I think we're going to be like the last generation that has to like kind of teach I mean I know that sounds really like diminishing but like teach men some basic home skills, because everyone I know who has a son is like oh no, no, no, I'm already teaching him how to like put his clothes in the hamper, how to make his bed every day, because one day he is not going to be some like useless motherfucker in a marriage who can't do anything for himself.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I plan to set Jack up for success because I don't want him to, you know, have to go through the pain of a divorce and only getting 50-50 with his kids because he couldn't pull his own weight and his wife resented him and wanted out. No, yeah, I'm gonna teach you how to do what you need to do to be a partner, just like you saw with between you know, me and his father. Also, you know, to maybe take on some more of the load while your wife is healing after giving birth, be available emotionally, be able to communicate those emotions effectively without having anger outbursts. All of that is important to me for him, because that is how he's going to have successful relationships and be a successful father and partner.
Speaker 2:Completely, and even things like self-care, like we're not I'm hoping we're not going to see like these annoying boyfriends who are like you know, know what are you doing in there morning and night in the bathroom? Like you should also be looking after your skin and your teeth and your body. Like you have one body and you need to look after it. And I'm tired of like it only being women who I don't know give a fuck. So I think that, like we're gonna start seeing that die out as well, because men are gonna be like you know, oh, I watched my mom care for herself and you know, maybe she taught me like how to put lotion on. You know, because I had itchy elbows like simple stuff like that you're gonna see men doing more of and that whole tired like oh, I use a six in one body wash. Like I think that will kind of die out.
Speaker 1:Oh, I agree, I agree, I don't. I do think, though, too, that has been perpetuated by this whole like be a man, you know, rub some dirt in it. Oh, you don't need a lotion. Your elbows, what are you? A sissy. Like you know, it has always been so important to be this rugged man, and that, yet women, you have to be girl.
Speaker 2:You have to be girl, you have to be feminine, you have to take care of yourself. We don't want you. If you're not feminine and dainty, it's because we've been conditioned to. We've been told for centuries that not only will these jobs complement our natural abilities to sympathize, to educate and to understand, but these careers will also afford us flexible hours so we may one day look after our own children. There it is. That's the truth.
Speaker 1:So dare I speak in your name for vocation?
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly so. If these career choices are suited to your own personal skills or you chose to teach specifically so you can be a present parent, that is your personal choice and I do not disrespect that at all. But do not tell all women that these jobs are naturally more suited to their feminine nature, when it's simply not true. It's just not true.
Speaker 1:I agree. I agree Also. You're assuming that everyone likes to feel feminine. That's not true, I'm sorry. How growing up did we have tomboys then they clearly did not like to lean into their feminine side. They like to hang out with the boys, play in the mud, rocks, dirt, and that's fine. Let them just be. Who cares?
Speaker 2:Yeah, completely Like. There's no need to fit, especially children. Do not try to put children in a box, men or boys or girls. I'm saying that is just one of the worst things you could do to a child.
Speaker 1:I just feel like they're kids and you should just just let them be, let them be children, let them do whatever they want to be. I know Bridget has probably talked about it on multiple episodes, but my son Jack is definitely very emotional, which would be seen as a feminine characteristic, but I, as a therapist, love that about him. He is a sweetheart and I'm going to nurture that. I'm not going to put him down and toughen him up. Yeah, no, I think that's going to be a great value to have when he finally has a partner in his life that he wants to share his life with, because he's going to be great at communicating, he's going to be able to express feelings on a deeper level, and I think that's beautiful and I'm not going to destroy that just because the world wants him to be a tough man, completely.
Speaker 2:How many men don't even have the vocabulary to describe the emotions that they are feeling? How sad is that? To be trapped in your own emotions, unable to express with someone you love how you're feeling because you were never taught these words, whereas a lot of women were taught how to express themselves. And it's not that we're more emotional, it's just that we know how to talk about it and get it off our chest. So to trap your child in their own mind, unable to you know, free themselves and talk about it with someone they love and trust, is just really damning and sad. So I completely agree, like you should, let your children sit with their emotions and recognize what they are, put words to it and then move on. I agree a hundred percent you know, and it's.
Speaker 1:It's sad that people are kind of forcing what they think is right when it's just like just support, nurture, help grow. You know, help them understand, you know, go over. Well, what I love now too, with our generation, that's finally coming up into, you know, the parenting world um is that there are more resources available, like parenting books that are um full of emotions and describing them. There's even that movie, uh, what's it called, with all the feelings you know yep, inside out.
Speaker 1:What are they on their second movie now? So they're. They're expanding the feelings, because I even think they like added anxiety and something. There's a two others I think they added, but so they're. They're going over all the emotions and feelings and describing them and what they feel like and how you know you could help with that and I think that's super great, valuable, educational and they should continue to do that.
Speaker 2:Wait, oh my God, you know what I actually. So there's a movie coming out, or maybe that is out, I don't know. I don't have children yet, so like I don't pay attention to like the Disney movies and animation. But there is another one coming out, marissa I'm sure you've seen ads for it where it's about like a 12 year old girl and it's kind of like inside out, but it's about what she's going through as a 12 year old and apparently the writers actually consulted like one of the writers daughters or something who's 12 and they asked her to put into words everything she might feel like in in an hour, you know, and she did and they were like mind blown.
Speaker 1:they were like, oh shit, like all that goes through your head that quickly, and she was like, yeah, and they were like, all right, we need to write some more emotions in here see, though, like these are things that just people were not even looking at, they were just um, disregarding, and it's like, yeah, if you actually just, you know, took the time to sit down and speak with someone much like what a therapist does, although we dive into things on a little bit deeper level with therapeutic interventions but, you know, the core of it is just talking, just letting them be human, just let us into your inside world. We want to know everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the truth will set you free.
Speaker 1:Still rings true today, but I feel like, I mean, this has been a huge topic and we could go on for hours, honestly, but we won't.
Speaker 2:I know, I know, yeah, if I had a few drinks, if I were not pregnant, this conversation we'd be going into the night baby.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you, thank god we're both not drinking, because this conversation would have been had way more cursing and it would have been all over the place oh my god, when I was like brainstorming for this episode, it's very hard to not kind of get carried away with it, especially as a woman, because if you're constantly being told as an adult who you know is independent, makes your own money like I'm very satisfied with my life, and to be told like, oh, your true vocation is to be a mother Listen like I work in obstetrics and gynecology. Most of the doctors I work with are women and a lot of them have children, and all of them say they couldn't wait to come back to work because being a mom is very hard, it's very, very hard.
Speaker 2:And to say like, oh, the hardest job ever where you're unpaid is your true vocation.
Speaker 1:Whoa, wow, okay listen, harrison, all I'm saying is you're lucky, we didn't drink this episode and she's pregnant, because we'd be calling you out. We'd be like you, meet us here. We're going to fight you.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:Oh my.
Speaker 2:God, all right, listen up, buddy. We're going to meet up after this baby's born.
Speaker 1:Meet us at Benedictine College, where it all started.
Speaker 2:Yeah, leave it all out on the field I'll show you my true vocation.
Speaker 1:I'm a boxer. Just kidding. Oh, I wish, but you know. Oh, let's just say though, if, if you do agree with harrison and it works, in your marriage the dynamic works. You're both happy, you both feel fulfilled. There's no resentment? Great, I'm happy for you. Just don't push your views on everybody else, because one size doesn't fit all. That's all I'll say.
Speaker 2:Environment to tell women that they should be mothers when they've obviously just spent a lot of money, blood, sweat and tears earning a degree. It just it was more of a case of like wrong place, wrong time. I think that's what is so, yeah, that's what's so. Triggering for women is like it's just not the appropriate time or place.
Speaker 1:I agree, Like Harrison buddy, you couldn't find like a local Catholic birthing class. You could have spoke this out to get them excited about giving birth Buddy buddy come on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just, it was. You know, and I'm not saying like you know, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, so I completely understand. If people do support what he said, it's just it was at the wrong environment.
Speaker 1:It was the wrong environment I agree, I agree, and I'm all for freedom of speech, hence why he was able to speak his opinions so openly. I'm I'm grateful for that in our constitution, um, but agreed wrong, wrong place so maybe he'll learn from that, maybe he won't't, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:to me, to be very honest, because if he doesn't learn from it, we get to rant more about it. And guess what? I love A rant.
Speaker 1:Guess what guys. Her due date is going to be in September and once this baby is out, you're going to see a whole new woman next season, with alcohol, oh for real.
Speaker 2:Because let me tell you, mama wants, wants, a margarita. I think about it a lot and I am gonna be recording with a margarita in my hand. My husband and I just recently bought a house because you know we're expecting a child, so I'm going to be outside on my porch with a margarita, like girl is going to be litty as a titty and I will be ranting Litty as a titty.
Speaker 1:That's a good one. I love that. Can I please come to this party? This litty as a titty party.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Bring a breast pump, girl, pull up. I even got those wireless ones, girl, they they good, I'm hoping to get one of those so I could and I'm gonna have to pump and dump a lot. So we'll talk about all this in my postpartum life, absolutely I'll.
Speaker 1:I'll teach you how to lean into your vocation I know what if I love it. Oh god, that's fine. Again, like you and I said, if that, I said if this is your true calling and nothing makes you happier, I am happy for you. I just don't want you telling someone who wants to be a doctor that, like that's just insane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everyone is entitled to live life how they want to, free of judgment.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well, since Bridget opened up this time, I guess I'll close. Thank you all for listening. I know this was quite different, but we kind of wanted to, you know, riff a bit and talk about the recent events that happened. So let us know if you, if you like this episode, if you have any other ideas, please follow like, subscribe at Psychotic PY podcast. Um, you know, go over to YouTube too and search psychotic P Y podcast. Give us a subscribe. We'd really appreciate that. And, as always, thank you for listening in.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. Have a great weekend, guys. Bye.